I know the basic concepts of BIAB (I should, I've been using it for more than 25 years)
But I would still like to know what is happening now with my current version BIAB 2021).
I installed BIAB and didn't hook up any Midi instruments yet. So if BIAB is using Midi it is doing so with its 'in house' Midi.
I entered the chords to a song and also a lyric layer.
I wanted to render .wav files for the three part (bass, drums, piano). I figured out how to do that.
Now for my questions.
Are my song parts midi parts or audio parts? I was under the assumption they were all audio. They sound like audio, but these days midi has gotten quite sophisticated in its sound.
How can I quickly tell if my parts are midi or audio?
When I look at my Mixer I see an added line at the bottom saying: 'Audio'.
I wasn't asked about it when I created my song and don't know what it is?
When I played back my song it sounded OK but I just realized that two layers of the song are being played back, the bass, piano drums 'layer' and the audio 'layer'. When I muted the audio 'layer' it sounded more pure.
Similarly, I could mute the bass, piano drums 'layer' and just playback the audio 'layer' and it sounded exactly the same as just the bass, piano drums 'layer'.
So what the heck is going on here?
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
What color are the Tracks in the mixer? If they are yellow, then this is MIDI, if green then RealTracks (Audio) In your MIDI / Audio drivers setup, does this point to an internal VSTi or similar?
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
What color are the Tracks in the mixer? If they are yellow, then this is MIDI, if green then RealTracks (Audio) In your MIDI / Audio drivers setup, does this point to an internal VSTi or similar?
All the tracks are green.
Yes it points to the VSTi/DXi synth, exactly as your screen shot shows.
So it seems BIAB was able to find appropriate RealTracks for the style I chose. But I still don't understand what is going on.
Why did it create an additional 'Audio' track? Why was it, by default, playing the RealTracks + the 'Audio' track (which didn't sound good)?
Why should someone like me (not fluent in BIAB) need to come here to figure out what is going on and fix it?
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
What? These are legitimate questions from BIABman. Audiotrack is handling things well. If we can see the screenshot it will help a lot.
As to coming here to figure out what is going on, none of us were instantly fluent in BIAB and we have to learn in several ways including getting help on the forum. BIAB is an extremely powerful software with a considerable learning curve, but the rewards of learning it better are great.
And please remember, we are only fellow users on this forum. You can always click on the Support tab up above, and write, call, or chat with PG Music staff. If you give us the info, though, we are usually able to figure things out here.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
... Audiotrack is handling things well. If we can see the screenshot it will help a lot.
As to coming here to figure out what is going on, none of us were instantly fluent in BIAB and we have to learn in several ways including getting help on the forum. BIAB is an extremely powerful software with a considerable learning curve, but the rewards of learning it better are great.
And please remember, we are only fellow users on this forum. You can always click on the Support tab up above, and write, call, or chat with PG Music staff. If you give us the info, though, we are usually able to figure things out here.
Thanks Matt, you guys here in the BIAB user Forums are great! I have received so much help over the years and really appreciate it.
I guess for me, the problem is that I use the program so sporadically, that I will forget many things the next time I fire up the program, which often can be after several years' hiatus.
As far as the official support tab is concerned, I must say I have been a bit disappointed with the quality of support I have received the last two times I used the chat session (same fellow). In both instances he was recommending I update my version with the latest patch to fix my problems. And in both instances there were simple fixes (I discovered) that had nothing to do with updating.
For example the last time (today) I asked how to fix the sound problem I was getting when I tried to transpose my song, he first asked if my tracks were frozen (they weren't) and then immediately suggested I update my version!
It turns out the sound problem I was getting (related to this post) was that BIAB was transposing the song and playing back both the initial key (C) and Eb at the same time! The audio track was playing a conflicting key.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
It turns out the sound problem I was getting (related to this post) was that BIAB was transposing the song and playing back both the initial key (C) and Eb at the same time! The audio track was playing a conflicting key.
I am no expert but I believe once you generate your song and output to WAV files BIAB will by default save a file with the project name as a complete song with all tracks. Then, when you go to play the song again BIAB will automatically look for a WAV file with the project name and if it exists it will play it. So, when you changed keys and regenerated I suspect you didn't output WAV again so the complete song as a WAV in the old key was in your project folder and BIAB automatically played it.
Muting the track probably didn't help much for the screen capture, as this forced the text color to be red.
I was looking to see if it was a performance track (in which case it would be colored orange).
For the 'Audio Track' specifically, yellow shows that an audio recording is present on the track.
If you temporarily remove the mute, what color is the text then? (another screen capture would be great).
Here you go. I suspect we won't be able to get to the bottom of this unless I start from scratch and try different things.
Here's what's happening. The screenshot I uploaded now is from my original song key (C). After I transposed to Eb and things sounded OK with the audio track muted, I saved the song with a name including Eb.
When I play this song with the Audio Track unmuted (as you see in the screenshot) it sounds awful. Muting parts reveals why. If I mute the audio track all sounds OK and it's playing the song in C.
If I mute the RealTracks, all sounds OK but it's playing the song now in Eb.
So the last time I saved this 'original' song in C I must have already tried a transpose to Eb.
But back to my original questions. What is with this Audio Track? Is it always there when you start a song? What is its function?
I understand midi tracks (if you are using them). I understand Real Tracks (if you are using them). But why have something called 'Audio track'? Real Tracks ARE audio tracks!
And why program the software so that there is a chance that this audio track can conflict with existing Real Tracks/midi tracks if a transposition is done?
And why have an additional audio track added when it's not needed (it's just duplicating the Real Tracks)?
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
As best I understand what you are describing, all is going according to design.
The audio track is a design feature which allows you to "capture and save" an entire arrangment of your song as an audio file. By Default it is named exactely the same as your .sgu or .mgu song file and it is saved in the exact same directory. If at any time you want to stop it from loading at startup just rename it or remove it from the directory. If you want to deleted it from within BIAB, there is an option to "kill entire audio".
This audio file permits a number of thinks to happen so can be used for a number of differenct options.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
Well, I understand now why it sounds so bad. It was recorded in C and the song is now in Eb, but there is an audio recording playing along in the key of C.
Look in the same folder that you saved the original .SGU or .MGU file and try to find a file with the same name but with the extension of .WAV or similar. Delete or rename that file. Restart BiaB and reload the song and you should be good to go.
I can't explain exactly what happened to create the audio file, but it was probably a step taken somewhere.
Incidentally, this does not compute:
Quote:
"The screenshot I uploaded now is from my original song key (C)"
So the original song was in C, including the RealTracks and the Audio Track
Quote:
After I transposed to Eb and things sounded OK with the audio track muted, I saved the song with a name including Eb.
So far so good. RealTracks are now in Eb, and the muted Audio Track is in C.
Quote:
If I mute the audio track all sounds OK and it's playing the song in C.
Wouldn't the song now be playing in Eb ?
Quote:
If I mute the RealTracks, all sounds OK but it's playing the song now in Eb.
Didn't you transpose the RealTracks to Eb? So with the RealTracks muted, the Audio Track is still playing in C, surely?
I suspect you've got these last two items reversed. The Audio Track is in C, the RealTracks are in Eb
At any rate, find the WAV file (or other audio file) in the same folder with the same name as your song and delete it. Restart BiaB and hopefully this will be resolved.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
It turns out the sound problem I was getting (related to this post) was that BIAB was transposing the song and playing back both the initial key (C) and Eb at the same time! The audio track was playing a conflicting key.
I am no expert but I believe once you generate your song and output to WAV files BIAB will by default save a file with the project name as a complete song with all tracks. Then, when you go to play the song again BIAB will automatically look for a WAV file with the project name and if it exists it will play it. So, when you changed keys and regenerated I suspect you didn't output WAV again so the complete song as a WAV in the old key was in your project folder and BIAB automatically played it.
This is the correct answer. When the poster the saved the file, a wav file was created and saved in the same folder the BIAB song project is saved into.
<< But back to my original questions. What is with this Audio Track? Is it always there when you start a song? What is its function? >>
The function of the Audio Track is for users to import or record their own audio. Yes. It is always available when you start a song.
RealTracks and user imported or recorded audio are not the same and are not compatible in BIAB in earlier versions prior to the introduction of Utility Tracks. RealTracks in the BIAB mixer tracks are not audio but retrieve and compile audio from the RealTracks audio files stored on your computer.
<< And why program the software so that there is a chance that this audio track can conflict with existing Real Tracks/midi tracks if a transposition is done?
And why have an additional audio track added when it's not needed (it's just duplicating the Real Tracks)? >>
Because with this function, BIAB can produce a song project consisting of dozens of instruments across dozens of tracks in a single digital audio render.
Prior to having Utility Tracks, audio files had to either be imported or recorded onto the Audio Track and then the audio recorded onto the Audio Track could be converted to a Artist Performance File and moved to any one of the other six original BIAB Legacy Tracks (Bass, Piano, Guitar, Strings, Melody, and Soloist). I believe the Drums Track could be used but wasn't recommended because of peculiarities of drum specific functions on that track.
The capability to record audio into BIAB has been available since around 2014/15 for both MAC and Windows versions. Combined with the Artist Performance File feature and the RealTrack Medley Maker, it adapted the BIAB program into a digital multi track recorder and eliminated the 8 track output limitation. Today, BIAB is a very robust multi track recorder capable of creating complex mixes and arrangements totally within the program, easier and faster than what it takes digital multi track, stand alone hardware units from Tascam, Zoom, Roland, Alesis and other brands to do.
Just using BIAB, Vocals, multiple backing vocals, instrument solos, instrument backing tracks, midi instruments, SuperMidi, RealTracks and complex sub-mixes can be produced in a single BIAB song project. Artist Performance Files and now, Utility Tracks, provide the ability to mix multiple different Styles, Midi, SuperMidi, RealTracks and recorded Audio together and reside on a single track together.
... Because with this function, BIAB can produce a song project consisting of dozens of instruments across dozens of tracks in a single digital audio render.
Prior to having Utility Tracks, audio files had to either be imported or recorded onto the Audio Track and then the audio recorded onto the Audio Track could be converted to a Artist Performance File and moved to any one of the other six original BIAB Legacy Tracks (Bass, Piano, Guitar, Strings, Melody, and Soloist). I believe the Drums Track could be used but wasn't recommended because of peculiarities of drum specific functions on that track.
The capability to record audio into BIAB has been available since around 2014/15 for both MAC and Windows versions. Combined with the Artist Performance File feature and the RealTrack Medley Maker, it adapted the BIAB program into a digital multi track recorder and eliminated the 8 track output limitation. Today, BIAB is a very robust multi track recorder capable of creating complex mixes and arrangements totally within the program, easier and faster than what it takes digital multi track, stand alone hardware units from Tascam, Zoom, Roland, Alesis and other brands to do.
Just using BIAB, Vocals, multiple backing vocals, instrument solos, instrument backing tracks, midi instruments, SuperMidi, RealTracks and complex sub-mixes can be produced in a single BIAB song project. Artist Performance Files and now, Utility Tracks, provide the ability to mix multiple different Styles, Midi, SuperMidi, RealTracks and recorded Audio together and reside on a single track together.
Wow thanks very much for this explanation Charlie. Although I don't understand all of the features yet that you have described, I can see how rich BIAB now is and has become in the past few years.
I was aware of RealBand as an additional tool available to BIAB users (never used it) but now see that BIAB has integrated some/many of RealBand features directly into BIAB.
Perhaps if I have some spare time to experiment in the future, I will try to record audio (guitar) into a BIAB song and see what can be done.
My go-to method of creating a song up until now has been to get the backing tracks sounding good in BIAB, then rendering .wav files for them and importing them into Reaper and then adding my guitar parts there.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
Well, I understand now why it sounds so bad. It was recorded in C and the song is now in Eb, but there is an audio recording playing along in the key of C.
Look in the same folder that you saved the original .SGU or .MGU file and try to find a file with the same name but with the extension of .WAV or similar. Delete or rename that file. Restart BiaB and reload the song and you should be good to go.
I can't explain exactly what happened to create the audio file, but it was probably a step taken somewhere.
Yes this is the part that I'm confused about. I don't remember ever creating this 'Audio file' when I made these songs.
Getting rid of it will be easy. I can either delete them as you suggest above or simply mute them as I have been doing.
Incidentally, this does not compute:
Quote:
"The screenshot I uploaded now is from my original song key (C)"
So the original song was in C, including the RealTracks and the Audio Track
Quote:
After I transposed to Eb and things sounded OK with the audio track muted, I saved the song with a name including Eb.
So far so good. RealTracks are now in Eb, and the muted Audio Track is in C.
Quote:
If I mute the audio track all sounds OK and it's playing the song in C.
Wouldn't the song now be playing in Eb ?
Quote:
If I mute the RealTracks, all sounds OK but it's playing the song now in Eb.
Didn't you transpose the RealTracks to Eb? So with the RealTracks muted, the Audio Track is still playing in C, surely?
I suspect you've got these last two items reversed. The Audio Track is in C, the RealTracks are in Eb [/quote]
I don't recall how I arrived at my two files (C) and (Eb). But basically right now, my C file has the RealTracks playing in C and the Audio Track is playing in Eb !!!
and my Eb file has BOTH the RealTracks and Audio Track playing in Eb.
I'm sure some of this has to do with my response when I chose Transpose. I would get pop-ups asking if my Audio Track should also be transposed. I don't remember what I chose each time. I did it several times and didn't save the file and of course, I did save the files ultimately for each key.
Quote:
At any rate, find the WAV file (or other audio file) in the same folder with the same name as your song and delete it. Restart BiaB and hopefully this will be resolved.
Yes this part of the problem was easy to fix. Thanks Noel!
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
I guess for me, the problem is that I use the program so sporadically, that I will forget many things the next time I fire up the program, which often can be after several years' hiatus.
Music is wonderful. I think you should insist on opening and playing Band in a box at least once a day.
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