|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,825
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,825 |
Hi Folks,
Please tell me if this has already been raised here.
I find most of the Bass Real Tracks are muddy and need significant EQ (and other effects).
I am currently working on a song using the excellent 4235 (Dave
Roe) Real Track and it is very muddy.
Does anybody else have this problem or is it just me?
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,624
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,624 |
I always EQ bass RTs, FWIW
They work fine, but are recorded without much flavor, which is probably intentional
I wouldn't call them 'muddy' but a bit of EQ can make them come to life quite a bit, which is my preference
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,110
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,110 |
There is no DI version for 4235, and it's fingered, you can try a picked one or use the midi with a virtual instrument or Sforzando with a PG library instrument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,153
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,153 |
If the bass track has a DI option then you can put your own amp sim on it. My DAW Logic Pro has a multitude of bass amps that I use but frequently forget to mention. In the absence of the DI option I like Neutron’s electric bass presets as I can typically find one that with a few tweaks helps the bass sit in the mix. Also Neutron has a feature that lets you examine how well one track is working with another. This allows you to, e.g., adjust the eq of the kick drum and bass to keep them more separated via visual presentation of conflicts.
Bud
Last edited by Janice & Bud; 05/11/23 07:48 AM.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741 |
I find that there are some really good bass tracks in BIAB and a lot of pretty marginal tracks. Most of the bass tracks are pretty generic, to begin with. It depends on the style of music as to how useful they are.
The country and Americana genre bass tracks are generally usable but all require adjustments with EQ and compression. BIAB has hundreds of bass tracks that I have not listened to so I certainly do know everything.
If there is a DI track, in general, I prefer to use that and use Trillian as the amp sim. Actually, I find it is less work to use midi tracks when available.
I think we all ask BIAB to do things that it is just not capable of. You will not find the likes of Billy Sheehan, Marcus Miller, or Paul McCartney in BIAB.
BIAB is a great piece of software for what it is capable of doing. Very little is A list studio quality recordings. Add the algorithms needed to make it work and often one will find "muddy" recordings.
Just my two cents worth.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,153
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,153 |
As a Mac BiaB beta tester I listen to hundreds of RT tracks and being a bass player I find the quality of bass RT’s (and other RTs) to be well suited for a pro level project. During our licensing of RT based songs and conversations with significant Spotify curators I’ve never received a complaint or had an issue raised about the quality of the tracks. Often to “personalize” the track to your tune comping helps as does occasional shifting of notes. And as I mentioned in my previous response some effort, in my experience, is frequently necessary to enable a bass track to cooperate with other tracks - most notably drums. FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, etc.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 3,057
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 3,057 |
BIAB is a great piece of software for what it is capable of doing. Very little is A list studio quality recordings. Add the algorithms needed to make it work and often one will find "muddy" recordings. I think the RealTracks are actually quite good, but they need some mixing-love to shine (like any other studio recording). There's a reason why "mixing" is still a profession.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,062
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,062 |
I find most of the Bass Real Tracks are muddy and need significant EQ (and other effects). The first thing that comes to my mind is How are you monitoring?Otherwise, like the others, I find that some styles need more love and attention on the bottom end than others. I like Bud's suggestion of using amp sims, too. As a pro bassist growing up in the '60s–'70s, I often like my bass on what others consider the dark side. I don't do "in your face" bass. Gibson basses with the huge "mudbucker" pickup... Can't believe I owned 3 of those over the years but all got DiMarzio Model One replacements to get some midrange into the sound. All were sold 20 years before the stroke that crippled my left arm 14 years ago. It's hard to believe those are now worth some serious coin and Gibson is making them again.
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741 |
"It's hard to believe those are now worth some serious coin and Gibson is making them again."
LOL Mike, the things we have sold that are worth big bucks now!
I have a pretty modern Music Man bass. I also have a P bass which I think is a 1967 Fender. I have no idea what it is worth.
I play through an older RB800 Gallien-Krueger amp through four tens (Gallien-Krueger) and one fifteen (Sun) or DI and use mostly Trillian for a sim.
All the bass guitars I own will sound different depending on what amps are used and, even more, what speaker cabinets. Tube bass amps have a different sound than transistor amps. I build tube bass amps for clients as a hobby. A 200-watt tube bass amp is pretty pricey.
The last studio experiences were generally DI. In times past we would have used a Neumann u47 in a pro studio if it were available to mic the bass cab. Any large diaphragm condenser mic would work. Every engineer has their own ideas, depending on the type of sound/music one wants.
Custom wound pickups are also common now as in the past.
One of my complaints about BIAB bass is the synchronization with the drums. It is not a studio engineer's job to tell the drummer and the bass player how to play or fix their mistakes for that matter.
This is one of the main issues with Real Tracks. There is a limit to what can be changed.
Most people nowadays want convenience and care little for quality. Why carry an Ampeg bass head and a ton of cabinets around when you can play through a Lap Top and an amp sim?
I don't think major studios have to worry about being run out of business by BIAB...lol I also don't think BIAB has to worry about competition from pro recording studios.
The days of taking three years and a couple of million dollars to produce "Exile On Main Street" are over, even for the Stones.
Most industry people would say a modern album costs 150K to a million.
People are not recording in Abbey Road Studios because they like the tea. There are and have been a few good high-quality albums produced in the last few years for 10K to 15K.
I have said it a thousand times. BIAB is a great product. Don't expect it to do something it was never designed to do.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 892
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 892 |
Hi Folks,
Please tell me if this has already been raised here.
I find most of the Bass Real Tracks are muddy and need significant EQ (and other effects).
I am currently working on a song using the excellent 4235 (Dave
Roe) Real Track and it is very muddy.
Does anybody else have this problem or is it just me?
Best Regards
Nigel +1
biab2026(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro (latest or pretty close)
Blue and White Sea Star
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,879
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,879 |
Nigel,.
I went and looked that real track up because I was curious. It's not very common to have muddy tracks in the real tracks. Some are less than optimal but they are mostly pretty good right out of the box in my experience. Some need EQ but many don't.
Dave Roe, Bass, Electric Blues funk finger picked. Man this sounded really good. Nice and clean, full bottom end and nice high end. Same result when I soloed it.
My question would be, how are you monitoring it? I'm using Mackie MR-5.... 5" cones and a 10" Polk sub running 100w.
That's a good sounding track IMHO
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,334
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,334 |
Howdy Nigel....
For my default writing propensity I've found very good bass tracks.
But....where I've had a few issues is when it's an acoustic bass/standup bass in the 'style'.
I found some that are mushy with very indistinct notes and not rendered well.
With one of my somewhat recent instrumental tracks (Tranquility) even regenerating didn't give me the result I was looking for.
So....I just ended up playing the bass lines myself with my Roland MBD-1 which is a bass/drums module.
But....there's still no app like BIAB....I love this program.
Back to it....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 05/12/23 10:21 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,279
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,279 |
Nigel,
I often find them muddy & almost as often not to my liking for a bundle of other reasons.
I have an EQ preset for BIAB bass...small, precise cuts at 70 & 120Hz. Insert BIAB bass, try it dry, try it with those two activated, try a high pass for under 50 if needed. Often I need to add a small, narrow peak around 3Khz - or where ever the presence/cut through is so that's in my BIAB Bass preset too.
BIAB bass/kick drums are almost uniformly problematic for me...recorded & pre EQd to make the beater seem like a click which is very modern but something I don't care for.
Getting a BIAB bass to sit with the kick and then within the mix almost always a case of much twiddling...I have fewer probs with my own basses.
Given the above comments, perhaps an antipodean problem.
Last edited by rayc; 05/13/23 07:09 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,825
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,825 |
Hi Ray,
Antipodean - you may be right I may be crazy (Billy Joel).
I have a similar Bass Preset which I apply to all BIAB Bass Real Tracks. It has a 4db cut at 120Hz with a Q of 1.5.
I havn't tried your cut at 70Hz or peak at 3K but I will.
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,138
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,138 |
As a Mac BiaB beta tester I listen to hundreds of RT tracks and being a bass player I find the quality of bass RT’s (and other RTs) to be well suited for a pro level project. During our licensing of RT based songs and conversations with significant Spotify curators I’ve never received a complaint or had an issue raised about the quality of the tracks. Often to “personalize” the track to your tune comping helps as does occasional shifting of notes. And as I mentioned in my previous response some effort, in my experience, is frequently necessary to enable a bass track to cooperate with other tracks - most notably drums. FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, etc.
Bud
Your knowledge and skills are impressive, Bud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 892
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 892 |
......some effort, in my experience, is frequently necessary to enable a bass track to cooperate with other tracks - most notably drums. FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, etc.
Bud
Indeed. I'm working to get a solid pocket (bass+drums only) from biab. It can be more challenging than one thinks. Often those other instruments we add to the arrangements act as helpers in the groove. When you strip it down to bass & drums sometimes theres something lacking.
biab2026(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro (latest or pretty close)
Blue and White Sea Star
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,153
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,153 |
As a Mac BiaB beta tester I listen to hundreds of RT tracks and being a bass player I find the quality of bass RT’s (and other RTs) to be well suited for a pro level project. During our licensing of RT based songs and conversations with significant Spotify curators I’ve never received a complaint or had an issue raised about the quality of the tracks. Often to “personalize” the track to your tune comping helps as does occasional shifting of notes. And as I mentioned in my previous response some effort, in my experience, is frequently necessary to enable a bass track to cooperate with other tracks - most notably drums. FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, etc.
Bud
Your knowledge and skills are impressive, Bud. Thank you. And FWIW my digital mixing chops ALL came from the support of folks like you on this forum over the years. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 14
Newbie
|
|
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 14 |
Hi Folks, Please tell me if this has already been raised here. I find most of the Bass Real Tracks are muddy and need significant EQ (and other effects). I am currently working on a song using the excellent 4235 (Dave Roe) Real Track and it is very muddy. Does anybody else have this problem or is it just me? Nox Vidmate VLC Best Regards Nigel They work fine, but are recorded without much flavor, which is probably intentional
Last edited by mariusnoah; 09/29/23 06:03 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,283
Posts802,670
Members40,081
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean