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This question came to mind today after listening to a video about the breakup of Led Zeppelin. Also, I thought about the many musicians who died early from "sex, drugs, and rock n roll lifestyle."
I was talking today with a friend about someone who played better than me. My friend said you are alive, and that guy is dead! He can't play anything!
Some people here on this forum know a good bit about my history. I don't have anything to hide. The severe child abuse, the trauma of the war, and the trauma of the years of drug addiction. Luckily I did not die and got over all of that.
I think everyone starting young has a chance to become a world-class musician. One percent talent and 99% hard work with a bit of luck thrown in for good measure.
Looking back, I don't think I could have survived the "rock star" lifestyle.
When he was alive, I guess I thought it would be super cool to be Jim Morrison. Now, having a tombstone in Paris does not have much appeal.
Most of us probably don't consider being a musician a dangerous career choice.
Well...it is twenty minutes till midnight. I am pretty sure I will have survived one more day.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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eddie1261
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Not me. I would have been dead by 35 at the latest if I had the fame and the money that comes with it. Fast cars, fast women... Nope.
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Being a famous musician means you are partially locked in to performing the same hits forever. While that would be a nice problem to have, I’m glad it didn’t happen to me; I’m always looking forward, not back.
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Being a famous musician means you are partially locked in to performing the same hits forever. While that would be a nice problem to have, I’m glad it didn’t happen to me; I’m always looking forward, not back. Many of those people are sorry they wrote some of those songs. They became hits and they have to play them over and over again and didn't really like them in the first place! Better be careful what you write. It may come back to haunt you later!! Granted it is a nice problem to have. Money and fame amplify the person you already are most of the time. If you are level-headed and sane, you most likely will stay that way. I have met some extremely famous and talented people who were very down to earth and "normal". You figure out pretty quickly they are just normal people with a very strange job and life, in that everyone knows who they are and so on.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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That's an interesting question. I don't know that I'd want to know the answer to it. Based on my history at the time when I was younger.....
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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 I think it is much more complex than just being level-headed and sane. Hank Williams Sr. died at 29 from pain killers and alcohol. He was born with spina bifida, leading to his addiction to painkillers. In 2021 80,411 people died of a drug overdose in the United States. 16,706 of those deaths were caused by prescription opioids. There have also been musicians who were lucky enough to live through all the excess. Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 05/15/23 02:58 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Sadly, I almost had the chance, but it was nuked over royalty negotiations (the label basically didn't want to pay us).
But as the opening act for a number of successful bands/artists at the height of their career, and also in smaller venues for some who were past their prime, I've met more than a few.
There are those who flourished and others who were self-abusive. I guess you can say that about people in all walks of life.
Many said they had more fun when they were 'up and coming' and others seemed to flourish in their celebrity status.
I think I would have been fine. Although I did my share of recreational substances, I never overdid. I don't have a desire to do dangerous recreational activities, and never had that inclination. So if a plane, bus, or car accident didn't get me, I probably would have survived. And even though I'm not famous, a plane, bus, or car could get me.
As far as playing the same songs again and again, I really don't mind at all. I do that now, and still play Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl, or whatever the audience wants to hear.
I remember an interview with Tony Bennett. When he was asked if he ever got tired of playing "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" he replied, "No, how could I?" He added, "It's the song that put me on the map, it's the song my fans want to hear, I'll sing it just like the recording every time and love it."
Fans want to hear it just like the record. If that recording made you rich and famous, you owe it to them to play it like the record. I have the advantage that I didn't make a hit record, so I can do the hits my way, either similar to the record, or reinterpreted.
When I'm gigging, I analyze the audience. I use my experience to guess what song they need and when they need it. I'm not flawless but I'm quite good at it. Years of watching them did that. Their clothes, facial expressions, body language, energy level, and so on are all clues.
I don't do set lists, as I'm not clairvoyant so I can't predict when they are going to need a particular song, so I call the next song as we are playing one.
I play the audience in a way, bringing them to a climax, give them a release, and build them up again, repeating as necessary. I don't care how many times I've played it, when they need "Old Time Rock And Roll" or "Blurred Lines", they get it.
So I don't think I'd have trouble surviving stardom. And at this stage in my life, I don't think I'll ever get that chance.
But that's OK. I'm gigging 15–20 times a month, with my wife/best-friend/great singer and musician, and I'm writing aftermarket style and song collections for Band-in-a-Box. Life has been good to me so far.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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I certainly never tire of playing Billy Joel, Elton John, and the same goes for Jobim.
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If I was rich and didn't have to care about money, I would be extremely wasted every night. That type of addictive personality is a dangerous thing. New Years Eve 2023 will mark exactly 30 years since I last drank alcohol. I am more proud of that than I am for my military service, fathering children, my presence on the Dean's List for all 14 quarters I was in college, whatever successes I may have had (real or perceived) in music, or anything else in my life. I can honestly and accurately say that I would have been dead by 35 with access to the vices available to the really rich people.
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If I was rich and didn't have to care about money<...snip...> If I were rich and didn't have to care about money, I'd probably spend half the year playing music to an audience, and the other half traveling the world as a traveler, not a tourist. Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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This is an interesting take on the subject.
I was talking with someone on the forums a few weeks back who posed a question that might make for an interesting thread sort of along these lines. We were curious as to how many people on the forum had and turned or have actually toured with a well known band. We were both certain some have. As an example, I've gathered that Bud and Janice where a pretty big deal in the bluegrass scene, and have played along side some of the greats. I'm not positive, but I feel like Bob Flatpicker maybe as well. Matt F seems like there's maybe a story or there too. No surprise, I think Floyd Jane has brushed with some of the big names in country music. I'm not sure if it has ever been talked about here? If so, maybe a thread could be started. There just seems to be so much talent here for there not to be. I only bring it up here because it's along these lines of this thread.
Now, back to the thread at hand. I can say with 100% certainty that the road would have more than likely ended me. Any one reason would be enough, but there are multiple reasons. It's just not something I would at ALL want to do knowing this.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Pertaining to the original Topic question .. nope, I wouldn't have survived most likely, and never wanted it that way.
Being 'famous' for anything is a really challenging situation.
I'd much rather have been a studio guy that got to meet/play with the greats, but not a front man.
I learned that about myself very early on.
Fame is not easy, much as some people seem to covet it.
Being rich is a different discussion. It comes with its own fair share of challenges.
I'd prefer rich over famous TBH, but being famous was never a goal for me.
And I accomplished it so far.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Billy wrote: "There have also been musicians who were lucky enough to live through all the excess."
Joe Pass, James Taylor, Keith Richards (somehow).
The opioid problem is a bad one and we don't seem to be doing much about it.
I am guessing in most cases the addictive personality just gets amplified with the fame and money just like everything else. Then the availability of the substances and everyone seeming to offer to these people adds up to a bad situation.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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Even my cows try to get me in trouble...lol  "This ditch weed sucks! Tell Billy to get us some better grass." Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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eddie1261
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Just think about that long list of people who never saw 30. Hendrix, Joplin, Moon... A famous twin of ME would have been on that list.
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There are addictive famous musicians, addictive non-famous musicians, and addictive non-musicians. The famous ones get more press. And it's not only drugs. A local guitarist I knew had an addiction to sweet foods, type 2 diabetes killed him. Too bad, he was a nice person and a fantastic musician/teacher. And I understand, my father killed himself with doughnuts, but he at least lasted until his early 70s. I've done my share of recreational substances, but I don't have the overdo problem. I'm good with the shy side of moderation. It's just my nature. I'm lucky that way. Thinking about it on the basis of what I know from meeting famous musicians that we opened for and met, the thing I would find about being famous that would be the biggest irritant is the pressure. - You need to get a new album out while this one is hot, and it needs to be better
- You have to be ready to be interviewed on the _______ radio show at 8AM tomorrow
- You have a personal appearance at ________ records and tapes at 3PM
- Costume fitting for your next tour tomorrow
- I know you gigged late last night, but the tour bus leaves at 6AM sharp
- and so on
After that, being out in public anonymously would be difficult. When I was gigging on cruise ships, we had mini-celebrity status. We'd be in port and a number of people wanted to talk to us, which was pleasant and very flattering, but there were times when Mrs. Notes and I just wanted to be alone in a new place to explore. We'd occasionally take a taxi away from the tourist area of the port to just enjoy ourselves in private. That's the price of fame, and if famous, I'd be as kind to those people as I could. I wouldn't shut them out or refuse to sign autographs, because it's just part of the job and you owe it to them. I'd feel the love from them and try my best to return it, but there would be times when I'd just like to go somewhere and not be recognized. I try to take everything in stride. Dream on Notes—there is no chance of that delightful burden landing on you at this point in your life. Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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eddie1261
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Funny story to reply to Notes comment about being as kind as possible.
My band was once playing in Canada. We were in some town that hasn't been discovered yet, all set up to play our week in the rock bar. About 2pm our agent up there called us asking if we were willing to move our whole stage to a local hockey rink ('ockey, eh?) to open a show. There was a postponement from Saturday to Monday because the ice under the floorboards was melting away and creating so much humidity the synthesizers for the headliner were not functioning normally and their act was very electronics base. That band was eponymously called Gowan, and at the time they were HOT in Canada. That guy, Larry Gowan, is now the keyboard player for Styx. We went, did a 35 minute set ("Not 34, not 36. 35!") of original stuff, and the crowd loved us.
The next day we were at McDonald's eating lunch. 3 young girls approached the table with paper placemats and pens and asked if the 4 of us who were there would autograph those placemats. With a straight face (though I was somewhat kidding) I said "Make you a deal. Give us 10 minutes to eat and we'll be happy to sign those for you, okay?" They all smiled and said "Sure!" As they were walking back to their table I looked at the 2 guys across from me and said "I have ALWAYS wanted to do that. Just nobody has ever asked me for an autograph before. Well, I had to sign those restraining orders, but..." We literally had to think on the spot and in the moment of something cool to say in the autograph. They came back over, we signed for them, and a 4th one for their friend who was not there, told them we appreciate them and they thought enough of that heard to ask for autographs, and they went on their way. So in the minds of three then 14 year old girls in Timmins Ontario, that day we were rock stars!
And looking back 35 years to 1988, I wonder if they still have those autographs and if they still think we were somebody.
The other side of that coin was that I was the firs one off the stage ramp. Gowan's tour manager literally grabbed me by the shirt and said "Why are you guys playing in (f'n) bars with a sound like that?" I answered "Because we need somebody like YOU to get us OUT of those (f'n) bars. Have a chat with our singers." We tore down. They chatted. And our leader did nothing with that possible foot in the door. That was his nature though. So afraid to fail that he won't try to succeed.
More ON topic, whatever level of success people here have achieved, nobody has done it with 8 and 9 figure bank accounts. I have never used cocaine. In fact despite 18 months in Vietnam where weed grew wild, I have never tried that either. No drugs ever. BUT, a large part of that may or may not have been that I never had money beyond keeping my head above water so I wasn't about to waste my money on something like drugs. With more money than I could count, who knows if I might have started having cocaine delivered to my house in a dump truck? Knowing myself better than anybody else possibly could, that answer is likely "yes". So in a way, being poor and a relative nobody has kept me away from things that would have killed me. I DID drink way to much but that is almost 30 years in my past now. NYE 2023 will mark 30 years since my last drink. That was the last real band show I ever did, and when I quit one it was easy to quit the other. Now, with my PTSD and introversion in full bloom, I am never in a situation where that resolve is tested, because I don't go anywhere or do anything. Then, being far more social, I was tested a few times but resisted the urge to revert to that lifestyle.
Last edited by eddie1261; 05/18/23 02:35 AM.
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Notes talking about being out in public anonymously reminded me of Mick Jagger going out for a beer in North Carolina I think it was, last year sometime maybe? Nobody recognized him and he wasn't wearing glasses or a hat like some of them do. Took a picture in front of the bar even! Sometimes it just works, I guess. All the big ones I have met have been very gracious, willing to talk for a question or two, maybe take a picture etc. I don't bother anyone when eating, or with family. Met David Crosby like that in the Fess Parker Inn in Los Olivos, CA. Near where he lived. He was talking with some guys in the restaurant. When he got up to leave, I asked for a picture, my wife took it, told him I was a huge fan and what a great guitarist I thought he was and off he went. Very friendly, big smile, making jokes. Met Pat Boone in O'Hare one time. He wouldn't give me the time of day. Handed me a brochure and took off and this was way, way after his peak in the business of course.
Met Chet Atkins a couple of times. Friendliest nicest person you would ever want to meet. Tommy Emmanuel also. Just as friendly as he could be.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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For whatever reason, I have met a good many famous people. Living in LA, I guess that is less surprising.
I always try my best to treat them like people first. I don't ask for autographs or photos. The advent of cell phones and selfies has changed that a bit, I guess.
Kris Kristofferson asked if he could share a table with me one day in a very crowded bar in Orange County, Ca. I knew who he was but had never met him before.
He sat down, and I said Hi, how are you, man or maybe Hi, Mr. Kristofferson, as he is at least ten years older than me. I don't remember. I don't think we said much about music or acting. There were a couple of cute girls that were distracting both of us...lol I did ask him something about flying choppers. I knew a tiny bit about his history.
Sometimes famous musicians get tired of being defined only by the music they do. And sometimes people act completely stupid around famous people. Like knocking over tables when you walk in the door of a restaurant trying to be first to get your autograph.
It is sometimes fun to be well-known, but it can also get to be a lot of work trying to figure out who you can trust.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Sometimes famous musicians get tired of being defined only by the music they do. NOT famous musicians get tired of that too. I recall one specific incident where I was chitting and chatting with a girl in a bar. Just talking about stuff in general. I mentioned that I was a veteran. Later that I am a very good cook. Still later that I am a capable woodworker. Finally I mentioned that I played keyboards in the Motown band I was in. ONLY THEN did she show any reaction, saying "Oh wow! You're in a BAAAAAAAAAnd???" Of ALL the things I have done in my life... Man, it's ONE thing I know how to do. That gets annoying.
Last edited by eddie1261; 05/18/23 12:17 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
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All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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