|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755 |
Let's say you have a piece of sheet music or TAB with it's associated audio file. And you want to practice this song on your instrument at a slower tempo. But to help in the practicing you want the bar numbering displayed in your DAW (Studio One for me) and the bar numbering of the sheet music to agree.
I searched for how to do this but came up empty so this morning I worked out the procedure myself and captured it in a PDF How-To document. In the spirit of giving back to this forum (many have helped me here on various subjects), PM me if you would like a copy.
I'm guessing the steps should be similar if you have a different DAW.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906 |
?? Bar number's don't change due to tempo changes?? 12 bar blues is 12 bars no matter how fast or slow you play it. 
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
If you have sheet music, bar 17 is bar 17 all the time no matter what the tempo is. I have no idea what you are really asking here. If you have music, read the music off the sheet. Adding a DAW to this equation is making it harder. The BEST way to practice is to play with a metronome and not play with a band track. Remember, when you hear a band track while you practice your mind tricks you into thinking you are Charlie Mingus when you might be playing like Charlie Chaplin.
I sing GREAT when I sing along with Sinatra records!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755 |
?? Bar number's don't change due to tempo changes?? 12 bar blues is 12 bars no matter how fast or slow you play it. I realize the bar numbers don't change due to tempo changes. But the bar numbers displayed in your DAW as the audio file is playing can be misaligned with the bar numbers shown in the sheet music. The notes in bar 12 in your sheet music (the truth) may or may not be the notes being played when the cursor of your DAW passes into bar 12. One easy way to see this is if the audio file contains a 2 bar count in when the sheet music has no such count in. The DAW as it plays the audio file will tell you that the music starts on bar 3 but the sheet music says the music starts on bar 1. 3-1=2 So you have a discrepancy of 2 bars.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906 |
OK, gotcha. Reaper actually has a offset bar numbering feature which lets you adjust the bar 1 to any number you would want. It does come in handy when BIAB transfers a file over with a 2 bar lead in which is not present in the printed sheet music. I suspect other DAWs would have this.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755 |
If you have sheet music, bar 17 is bar 17 all the time no matter what the tempo is.
Disagree. Bar 17 in the sheet music may or may not be reported as bar 17 by your DAW as the audio file is played.
I have no idea what you are really asking here.
I'm not asking anything. I solved a problem that perplexed me.
Adding a DAW to this equation is making it harder. The BEST way to practice is to play with a metronome and not play with a band track.
Disagree again. I find much value in playing to a backing track. BiaB is particularly useful for this. For me a metronome is too 1 dimensional.
Remember, when you hear a band track while you practice your mind tricks you into thinking you are Charlie Mingus when you might be playing like Charlie Chaplin.
I don't see how.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755 |
OK, gotcha. Reaper actually has a offset bar numbering feature which lets you adjust the bar 1 to any number you would want. It does come in handy when BIAB transfers a file over with a 2 bar lead in which is not present in the printed sheet music. I suspect other DAWs would have this. Well Jimney Cricket and jumpin bull frogs . . . you do agree!!  I re-read my original post and don't see it as confusing, yet confusion emerged. I can't speak to Reaper. If you reduce the tempo of the audio file by say 20% does Reaper still maintain the correct bar numbering automatically? In Studio One an adjustment needs to be made.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,513
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,513 |
I think you will have to do this adjustment in the DAW. I recall seeing one that had a pre-roll setting so Bar 1 could be wherever you wanted it. Most people have a lot of space at the beginning of a DAW file before anything musical happens.
In BIAB, I think you can designate bar one as a lead-in bar; I'll have to look for that. And exporting a song, I think you can prevent exporting the 2-measure filler. But again, I would need to experiment.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
But the bar numbers displayed in your DAW as the audio file is playing can be misaligned with the bar numbers shown in the sheet music. Again, I don't understand why that affects you playing along with a song. Are you not just reading a chart? A real chart, like dots on stave paper? You listen to a music file, not watch it. You watch the sheet music. How about a video clip of what the puzzle is? At least a still pic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755 |
I think you will have to do this adjustment in the DAW. Exactly, that is how my brain works. Do the adjustments in the DAW. I suppose it is possible to pencil in changes to the bar numbers on the sheet music but why? In my mind the sheet music is the dog and the DAW is the tail. And the dog wags the tail, not the other way around.I recall seeing one that had a pre-roll setting so Bar 1 could be wherever you wanted it. Most people have a lot of space at the beginning of a DAW file before anything musical happens. In Studio One, Bar 1 can be placed anywhere. You can drag the waveform to the right or you can add negative bars and drag to the left. But from what I am observing in S1 if you start with the sheet music and the DAW/audio file initially in sync throughout the whole song and then you change the playback tempo without accounting for the change, then your bar numbers will be out of sync. And I don't want them out of sync. In BIAB, I think you can designate bar one as a lead-in bar; I'll have to look for that. And exporting a song, I think you can prevent exporting the 2-measure filler. But again, I would need to experiment. For me, at this time, this is not about forcing BiaB to do anything non-standard. It is about working with my DAW so that under any count-in or tempo situation that the DAW will be aligned such that it's understanding of the numbering agrees with the sheet music. Among other things, if I want to practice Bars 22 - 30 I can place my looping brackets in S1 between Bars 21 - 30 and loop it till the cows come home. As I play thru this range what I hear thru my monitors at any point will be what I am reading at that point and will be what I am playing at that point. So there are 3 separate things that are in sync; the notes on the sheet, the music I hear and the notes under my fingers; no real-time math or mental adjustments needed
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755 |
But the bar numbers displayed in your DAW as the audio file is playing can be misaligned with the bar numbers shown in the sheet music. Again, I don't understand why that affects you playing along with a song. Hopefully my reply to Matt will help you understand this.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906 |
If you reduce the tempo of the audio file by say 20% does Reaper still maintain the correct bar numbering automatically? . Yes and no, depending on how you configure Reaper in "Project Setting", which allows the bars to be set by Beat or by Time. I generally use "time". Now that I better understand what you are doing, here are the details about how this is handled in Reaper. Ya, it can be complicated. But it does work well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4M4BoYcwPcThis issue goes beyound just setting the starting bar to what ever bar number you like. It has to do with how the project adjusts the "item" during tempo changes. Or have I just sent us down a rabbit hole?? 
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,755 |
If you reduce the tempo of the audio file by say 20% does Reaper still maintain the correct bar numbering automatically? . Yes and no, depending on how you configure Reaper in "Project Setting", which allows the bars to be set by Beat or by Time. I generally use "time". Now that I better understand what you are doing, here are the details about how this is handled in Reaper. Ya, it can be complicated. But it does work well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4M4BoYcwPcThis issue goes beyound just setting the starting bar to what ever bar number you like. It has to do with how the project adjusts the "item" during tempo changes. Or have I just sent us down a rabbit hole?? Hey Dan, no rabbit hole my friend and I do think you're getting it now. I could only watch about half of that video untill my eyes and brain glazed over. I'm not a Reaper user but I gathered that this sort of thing is no slam dunk for us meer mortals That guy (in lightening fashion) flew thru 2 different menus and made at least 3 setting changes in about as many seconds. And I think you are spot on. This is more than just setting where Bar 1 should be. Maybe that's why I couldn't easily find a similar video dealing with Studio One. All of this gets into how the particular DAW "thinks" about the audio file that it's being asked to operate on. Clearly I'm no S1 expert and I just recently upgraded to ver 6. But there are several configuration settings in any DAW that will force it to think/interpret things in certain ways. Bottom line for me, is that I figured out how do get the bar numbering to synchronize and because I don't want to re-invent this wheel again I captured the steps based on the default/factory S1 configuration settings. It wasn't easy to arrive at a solution useful to me which is why I'm offering it to whoever wants it.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,906 |
Sorry about that demo video. I was in a hurry and grabbed it quick. I should have referred you to this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eus1hMD_eUo&t=283sKenny explains "Track Timebase - Tempo in REAPER". This is actually more simple than it looks. There are only a couple options so you can just try them until you get what you want. By the way, Kenny Gioia is a Incredible Reaper Resouce. He makes hundreds of these videos to explain every item, detail and feature in Reaper. He updates his videos as new features are added. You can actually contract him for zoom sessions to hold your hand and walk you through sessions if needed. I can only assume S1 has similar features to permit adjusting timebases as shown in the video. Does S1 have a Kenny?
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,158
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,158 |
Bass Thumper, I use Riffstation all the time for this, no longer officially supported but someone has saved it to Dropbox. It will work out chords reasonably well, change pitch, loop and slow down. Here is the link I just browsed to, but do a virus scan as always after the download. https://www.dropbox.com/s/kz64w4f2so85m3x/Riffstation.zip?dl=0For an android phone I use an app called Music Speed Changer (classic) does much the same thing but won't do bars or detect chords.
Last edited by musiclover; 05/23/23 05:34 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 633
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 633 |
BIAB 2026 Ultrapack- Fender Studio Pro 8, Windows 11, Mac Mini M4 with Logic Pro 11, Melodyne Studio, Luna Pro
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,554
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,554 |
The math involved is why I wrote Music Calc .. if you ever need to do it manually. Music math ..
Last edited by rharv; 05/23/23 12:57 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,736
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,736 |
From Google’s BARD
The bar offset setting for files being inputted in Studio One is located in the Project Setup dialog box. To access this dialog box, follow these steps:
Click on the Project menu and select Project Setup.
In the Project Setup dialog box, click on the Audio tab.
In the Audio tab, scroll down to the Bar Offset section.
Enter the desired bar offset in the Bar Offset field.
Click on the OK button to close the Project Setup dialog box.
The bar offset setting will be applied to all audio files that are imported into the project after the setting is changed.
Here are some additional details about the bar offset setting:
The bar offset setting can be used to offset the start of audio files by a specified number of bars.
The bar offset setting can be used to create a gap between the start of an audio file and the start of the project.
The bar offset setting can be used to sync audio files to a video track.
Here are some examples of how the bar offset setting can be used:
You can use the bar offset setting to create a gap between the start of an audio file and the start of the project. This can be useful if you want to add a count-in to the audio file or if you want to create a space for intro music.
You can use the bar offset setting to sync audio files to a video track. This can be useful if you are working on a project that includes both audio and video.
Last edited by pghboemike; 05/24/23 02:43 PM.
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
casio wk-7500
biab & realband 2025 everything pk both with Current builds
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
Would it work if you set the tempo of the DAW to the tempo of the new song before you imported it? Seems like a whole lot of work and math to import to a blank template set to 120 (which seems to be DAW default) when your song is 104 and then fiddle-fart around with the math trying to line it up. Because as we all know 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,086
Posts799,999
Members40,031
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean