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New guitar and tube amp begining photos #768274 06/11/23 05:18 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	I have been thinking about building a "Three String Cigar Box Style Guitar" and a 5-watt tube amp to go with it. The amp will be easy. I know how to build amps. The guitar, well, who knows how many times I will need to start over before that gets finished...lol First, I had to build the miter box to cut the fingerboard fret slots. Here is the first sample cut and fret put in place. This is the neck blank with the fretboard being glued together. I have in mind to make the fretboard flat as this is mostly for slide guitar. I will not know if that is a good idea until I try it. Lots of details to work out. I will post more photos as things proceed. Trev, if you see this post, what do you think about changing the 6SQ7 for a 6SL7? Also, I did not understand how they got the 310 volts from the 270-volt PT. I have not done this for a while. Billy Last edited by Planobilly; 06/11/23 06:19 PM. “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768278 06/11/23 06:21 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,777 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,777 Melbourne, Australia	Looks neat Billy, From what I understand, the 12AX7 will substitute for the 6SQ7. Note that the 12AX7 runs 12 volt heater (2 x 6.3V heaters in series) but they can be placed in parallel and run 6.3V I think the gain is identical and as it's operating as a pre-amp, I doubt that the rail voltage would need any adjustment. They are both double-triodes, so I'm guessing that you only use 1/2 of the valve. The 12AX7 has a slightly smaller package, which might be useful. HTH Trev BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos AudioTrack #768290 06/11/23 08:16 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,777 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,777 Melbourne, Australia	Oh, and the pin-outs are different between the two but seeing they're not shown on the circuit diagram, you'll be looking these up anyway. BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768310 06/12/23 02:07 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Thanks, Trev. I changed the question in the post. I found a 6SL7 I did not know I had, but I would need to order a tube socket. I have a good many 12AX7 tubes and sockets which I could also use. Yes, 1/2 of the 12AX7. I am a little rusty on how to calculate the voltages past the input capacitors. The DC output voltage at the filter input per the datasheet is 360 volts. With modern tubes, who knows what the actual voltage would be? I also thought about using silicon diodes. There would be some slight changes in how the amp reacts to the guitar, but not nearly as much as most "tube purest" think there would be. From a visual point of view, using tube rectification looks more in keeping with 1946...lol Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768325 06/12/23 05:10 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK	I reckon Trev's in bed asleep by now. The DC voltage is root(2) times the AC voltage, minus the drop across the rectifier. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768336 06/12/23 06:36 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Thanks, Gordon. I am surprised anyone knows about the old tube/valve stuff any longer. More woodworking. Making this cut was to much like work...lol Perhaps not the most elegant headstock. The neck is coming along. There were some near misses working with the router, but I managed to survive. Sometimes I think woodworking is less about how skilled you are than how skilled you are in fixing mistakes. The three machine heads (tuning keys) I ordered were made to go on two sides, so I have to order more. I think I will order Grovers this time. I don't know if I should stain and shoot a clear coat or finish with oil. The table saw is almost as old as I am, around 1953, I think. I have a few pro tools, but most of the tools needed to build something like this can be gotten at Harbor Freight. A more or less junk tool store here in the United States commonly referred to as Horrible Freight. My first impression is that almost anyone could build one of these guitars. Of course, it is not finished yet...lol Onward through the frog, ah fog...lol Billy Last edited by Planobilly; 06/12/23 06:48 AM. “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768340 06/12/23 07:40 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Originally Posted By: Planobilly Harbor Freight. A more or less junk tool store here in the United States commonly referred to as Horrible Freight. For those not in the USA, Horrible Freight is the perfect place to go to buy a tool you may not use more than once or twice. Light duty tools. Of course some things, like the luggage rack on the back of my car, really don't have wear dating, but stuff with moving parts, like the brad nailer gun I just bought, are not intended for professional, frequent use. I think every backyard mechanic and basement woodworker hack in the USA visits Harbor Freight. Tarps, liquids, straps, etc... good source for low cost items. Last edited by eddie1261; 06/12/23 07:40 AM.

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768345 06/12/23 08:46 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Now that Eddie is looking at this, I guess he will need one for his guitar farm...lol You know you want one, Eddie...lol What Eddie said is true. A good place to buy cheap tools that are not intended for pro or long-term use. I have a couple of Senco professional nail guns. Top quality stuff. I also have two Brad nailers from Harbor Freight I have had for years that still work, just like the day I bought them. Not everything they sell is junk. One could build this guitar using only stuff from Harbor Freight. In fact, the guitar could be built using only hand tools. That would require a greater skill level. Building a tube amp is another story. There are very high voltages involved that can easily kill you. Best to get a little training from someone before taking on that sort of project. Anyway, I hope you guys find this thread entertaining. Billy Last edited by Planobilly; 06/12/23 08:50 AM. “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768353 06/12/23 10:59 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted By: Planobilly Thanks, Gordon. I am surprised anyone knows about the old tube/valve stuff any longer. I'm old enough that I was taught valves at college, though fortunately the tutors said "transistors are the future so we'll teach those whenever we can". The last valve in widespread use was, of course, the cathode ray tube, so valves have been widespread more recently than many realise. Whilst I personally think they're over-rated for high-quality audio (mileage may vary), there's no doubt that they add character to a guitar sound. Amp modelling has probably removed the 'need', but there's still something satisfying about doing valves for real. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768362 06/12/23 01:14 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,766 Victoria, BC Simon - PG Music Veteran
Simon - PG Music Veteran Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,766 Victoria, BC	Good to see you still working on projects like this Billy! My brother, dad, and I made a project similar to this as a Fathers Day activity a couple years ago. Used black walnut for the neck, with a simple oil finish. No frets. My dad and brother made 3-string guitars, and I made a 1-string bass (34" scale with a single flatwound string and a humbucker pickup). As some of you might know, I do a fair bit of work on tube amps myself - I've built some tube gear from scratch too. I don't know much about 6SQ7 or 6SL7 though. Sadly I'm young enough that my electronics courses in college barely even taught us transistors, instead focusing on op-amps and other IC's, so all my tube knowledge is just stuff I've picked up through working on guitar amps and the odd tube studio gear. Gordon's correct about the DC voltage - if you have a 270v transformer and a 5Y3GT, you'll probably get around 330v DC at the output - though this is variable depending on load, wall voltage, and other factors. How I got to this number: AC voltage multiplied by 1.414: 270 x 1.414 = 381 The 5Y3GT datasheet tells me there's a 50v drop with a 125ma load I agree that tubes certainly add character to guitar, however the biggest factor is the speaker, not the tubes. Tubes aren't even second place, the output transformer is! When I'm recording at home, I mostly use guitar amp plugins (in particular there are a couple plugins that let you copy your own amp using machine learning), however I always get the most "real" sounding results when I re-amp through a real speaker, which I usually use a solid state amp for. YMMV though. I work here

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768364 06/12/23 01:47 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Hi Gordon Yes, even the valves in microwave ovens can now be replaced with transistors. I have not built a tube/valve guitar amp for several years and have forgotten some things. They are still very popular with guitar players but will eventually die out, I guess. I am told by electronic engineers I know that they can build solid states guitar amps that sound like tube amps, but they would be costly. I have several amp modeling software packages that I use all the time. They do a good job, but none of them sound like my tube amps. Times change, and so do people. I am certainly not willing to lug a Fender Twin Reverb amp around any longer. But on the other hand, I am not willing to listen to music on a cell phone. I have a lot of modern high-tech stuff, but I also am not willing to leave some of the high-quality products of the past just because the new stuff is cheaper and more convenient. There may come a time when I can no longer grow my own food; I am getting old. But, this summer, we will eat real watermelons that taste like the watermelons you had in 1956...lol The audiophile stereo conversation will be argued about forever...lol People believe many things not supported by the best evidence. I find it humorous that the first thing guitar tube amp purest do is put a transistor peddle in the circuit...lol I have enough tubes and other components left to do me for the rest of my life...lol If forced to, I am sure I could make a power transformer and an output transformer. I don't know the current state of nanometer-scale vacuum tubes, but it seems that there may be a place in the future for that type of tube. I have always liked tinkering around building stuff, boats, airplanes, fishing rods, and guitar amps, just to name a few. So, you older guys need to stay alive, so I have someone to answer my questions...lol And thanks, by the way. Billy Last edited by Planobilly; 06/12/23 01:51 PM. “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Simon - PG Music #768365 06/12/23 02:19 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music Good to see you still working on projects like this Billy! My brother, dad, and I made a project similar to this as a Fathers Day activity a couple years ago. Used black walnut for the neck, with a simple oil finish. No frets. My dad and brother made 3-string guitars, and I made a 1-string bass (34" scale with a single flatwound string and a humbucker pickup). As some of you might know, I do a fair bit of work on tube amps myself - I've built some tube gear from scratch too. I don't know much about 6SQ7 or 6SL7 though. Sadly I'm young enough that my electronics courses in college barely even taught us transistors, instead focusing on op-amps and other IC's, so all my tube knowledge is just stuff I've picked up through working on guitar amps and the odd tube studio gear. Gordon's correct about the DC voltage - if you have a 270v transformer and a 5Y3GT, you'll probably get around 330v DC at the output - though this is variable depending on load, wall voltage, and other factors. How I got to this number: AC voltage multiplied by 1.414: 270 x 1.414 = 381 The 5Y3GT datasheet tells me there's a 50v drop with a 125ma load I agree that tubes certainly add character to guitar, however the biggest factor is the speaker, not the tubes. Tubes aren't even second place, the output transformer is! When I'm recording at home, I mostly use guitar amp plugins (in particular there are a couple plugins that let you copy your own amp using machine learning), however I always get the most "real" sounding results when I re-amp through a real speaker, which I usually use a solid state amp for. YMMV though. This post needs repeating because some information here only becomes known by experience. Simon, at least in my less-than-humble opinion, you are 100% correct about the most significant factor in the sound of tube amps being speakers. The "iron" is next. I have a guy in California who builds power transformers and output transformers for me. This is possibly the most arcane and least understood component there is. There are people building custom capacitors trying to replicate the ones from the 1950s. I vaguely remembered the 1.4?? number...lol Don't ever get old...lol Guys a lot younger than me are building and experimenting with tube electronics. That world is not going away anytime soon. Some of those guys understand all of the old and new electronics and can program in several languages on top of that. You can look at the grand canyon on youtube, but that will never replace going there in person. It is good to hear from you. It has been a while. Cheers, Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768373 06/12/23 10:18 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted By: Planobilly I am told by electronic engineers I know that they can build solid states guitar amps that sound like tube amps, but they would be costly. I have several amp modeling software packages that I use all the time. They do a good job, but none of them sound like my tube amps. I'm told that most, large at least, live performances now use amp modelling to get the sound and a solid-state PA. The thing with valve amps is that they are microphonic, particularly the sparse/lightweight grids, which means when the volume is up, the valve's 'guts' vibrate and valve becomes part of the performance. I'm not sure how well one can really model that. Making a plain old valve sound is fairly easy, making it respond realistically to the sound in the room is another issue all together. (Yes ... I am an electronics and software engineer). BTW, I don't know but would guess that that Fender reverb is likely a spring reverb, if so then obviously that would also be microphonic. These things all add to the rich 'dirty' sound that gives the character. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768395 06/13/23 02:09 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	@Billy My next thing is going to be a Ganjo, a 6 string banjo that tunes and plays like a guitar but sounds like a banjo. Before I buy one I want to talk to my guitar guy to see if he can convert it to plug into an amp. Probably be some kind of piezo pickup. Maybe after than you can build me the 3 Sting Corona Box Slide Guitar.

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768396 06/13/23 02:30 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Hi Gordon, I am certainly not knowledgeable about what is most prevalent in guitar amps being used worldwide. I guess that it depends on the artist's preferences. Not so long ago, Nick Jonas guitar tech called me to make an emergency repair on a custom tube amp. The amp was hand-wired point-to-point with no schematic. I had to call the builder to be sure I did not screw something up. He was happy to help me on the phone, and we solved the issue. Perhaps this is an isolated case of one artist who uses a tube amp. Most local guitar players I know are using tube guitar amps. As I said, I don't know what is most prevalent nowadays. I will comment a bit later on the PA issue. My wife is calling...lol Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768402 06/13/23 03:40 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,605 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted By: Planobilly I am certainly not knowledgeable about what is most prevalent in guitar amps being used worldwide. No, me neither. I'm a keys player and use a set of solid-state Yamaha powered speakers. I suspect for most people that modelling is enough and more convenient. As a child, I used to top up my pocket-money by repairing people's failed radios and TVs. I think I was about 9 or 10 when I started that and my mother said little more than "do be careful with that, there are high voltages in there". I can imagine today's parents responses :-) Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768423 06/13/23 07:19 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	I got finished with the work the big boss, my wife, had me do...lol I think more or less every keyboard player I have played with here in the United States has played through a Roland solid-state amp. Sometimes in very small gigs, the keyboard player would play directly through the PA. For bass players, it is most common to play through a Solid State amp. There are those hardy guys who are willing to lug around one of the old Ampeg 200-watt heads. For years Roland JC 120 Jazz Chorus solid-state amp has been very popular with jazz guitar players. The 45-watt Fender 65-tube amp has also found favor with thousands of jazz guitar players. Guitar players like Keth Richards use 100-watt Marshal tube amps with four twelve-speaker cabs. Joe Bonamassa uses a Fender 48 Dual Pro tube amp. John Mayer, Steve Vai, John Petrucci, and many other famous guitar players use Fractal solid state amps. So there are guitar players using both types of amps. Solid-state PA gear is the norm worldwide. It has become so good and so powerful that a trend, at least on the local level, has been to use smaller tube amps and mic them. It really depends on the artist and the venue. I can guarantee there will be tube amps, vintage B3 organs, and solid-state PA at the Montreux Jazz Festival in Gevena in 2023. JJ Electronics in the Slovak Republic works night and day to produce vacuum tubes and capacitors. I buy from those guys. China has also gotten into the vacuum tube business in recent years. There is no telling what the future will bring, but I assume vacuum tubes will be around for a good while into the future. I have some experience in Central Europe but much of what I have said is based on what I see here in the United States. By the way, I am not an electronics engineer and have had no formal schooling in electronics. This has always been a hobby. There are some people who know me from the music business, and that is why I sometimes get calls from well-known bands to fix their tube amps. They all have guitar techs that talk to each other and know who to call when they are in a jam. They mistakenly think I can do anything...lol, I can not do everything, but I know people who can and will answer my call at two AM. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos #768425 06/13/23 07:23 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Originally Posted By: eddie1261 @Billy My next thing is going to be a Ganjo, a 6 string banjo that tunes and plays like a guitar but sounds like a banjo. Before I buy one I want to talk to my guitar guy to see if he can convert it to plug into an amp. Probably be some kind of piezo pickup. Maybe after than you can build me the 3 Sting Corona Box Slide Guitar. I have been told life is like a box of chocolates, you never what may get delivered to your door, Eddie! Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768430 06/13/23 08:14 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Although now that I think about it, the thinner Panatella model might suit me better...

Re: New guitar and tube amp begining photos Planobilly #768535 06/14/23 11:09 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Moving forward. The machine heads arrived. I need to make up the wiring and install the volume pot and tone control. The problem is I have never wholly unpacked all the electronic parts in each little drawer covered in plastic. That will be a PITB job. That is likely why it has yet to be done...lol I find this to be a good bit of work, and I have made some minor mistakes in the process. The next one will go a lot faster. I am looking forward to the amp-building project. I may make that also in a cigar box. Billy Last edited by Planobilly; 06/14/23 11:12 AM. “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

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