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How might AI enhance the BIAB product line in the future?
Could it replace/enhance the current logic used in putting together a track performance?
Is there any initiative at PG Music to explore whether and how AI might be used in the future ?
Last edited by mrgeeze; 07/30/23 02:08 AM.
biab2026(Mac) Latest Build
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Lets be honest.... who really hasn't already thought that there's some AI voodoo-hoodoo majic going on inside this box? But without actually confirming it with Dr. PG...... I'll bet they're already hard at work integrating AI in some form or another into the box.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Herb,
Somebody might correct if I am wrong, but BIAB is programmed algorithms with some randomization happening.
You can throw rocks at me, but I find AI + music a bit disturbing. In a sense, why would one even want to go that route? Not enough music "out there"? I think what we have now (the common tools: BIAB, EZkeys, Chording apps, Synths & arps) are borderline between advance tools and cookie molds. In my view, one has to tinker with music because they have a passion to create something new, to reflect thoughts, mood, protest, learn, or something of that nature.
Obviously, there is nothing wrong with experimenting with anything, but I think one has to ask a question: Why I am doing this?
Sure there is/will be many uses for AI in music such as Meditation, time spending, relaxation, not to mention technicalities (like mixing assist) embellishing, jingles for commercials, elevator music and whole bag of other uses.
Personally, I would not want more than 5-10% of AI in stuff I am tinkering with. And even that is more for learning purposes and tech assist. It's like this... Would you go to art school to learn how to "paint by number"?
--------------------------------------------
I believe...instead of asking PGmusic to do AI stuff, it's better to leave it to what they do best. Record talented musicians and make RTs/RDs/Midis and examples of styles. As far as AI stuff and BIAB goes...VST3 (and future variants) will most likely support AI tech in deep ways and in my opinion the best approach would be for PGmusic to fully integrate with VST/VSTi technology and make the best use of it such as: Routing, drag and drop and other input, ergonomics, etc.
P.S. A short example. With relatively new Chord Track, now you can relatively easily integrate whole bunch of pattern/sequence/arp items in your BIAB workflow (VSTi) such as NI, EZkeys, Synthmaster and dozens more. It was confirmed that VST3 support is coming to BIAB in 2024.... Well in 2023, for most of us, early buyers.
The end.
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The only reasonable role I can see a for A.I. in the current version/configuration is for creating melodies in the soloist/melodist section.
I've tried the melodist a few times to get a melody for a backing I'd built but junked 99% of what was offered.
That was a good thing because it pushed me back to collaborating again.
I don't use BIAB to auto generate anything but a scratch band arrangement, according to an amended style, based on my chord selections, structure etc. To be fair I replace much of that once in a DAW.
Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland...I can't imagine allowing A.I. to further generalise, average and data derive on top of that.
PLUS there's far too much work needed dealing with legacy code, "work-a-rounds" & glitches.
Last edited by rayc; 07/29/23 09:06 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though.
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There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though.
FWIW, we two humans prefer to do a bit more than tinker around the edges.  And we love those on demand great BiaB session players. J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
Item 3 above gets my vote. And someone recently posted difficulty in finding a style along the lines of Riders of the Storm by the Doors, so I know there is other interest in this enhancement. Here is a Wishlist post on this subject. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=101811&Number=769911#Post769911
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Good ideas but how much money are you willing to pay for all of those suggestions. I can picture a range of $800 to $1000 USD for the compressed audio version. I would much rather have PGMusic work on fixing current problems like time signatures, all tracks equal, etc, and improving and creating new styles and recording RTs and RDs. YMMV
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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eddie1261
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Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland. Couldn't that be at least part way remedied by bring in some new blood to play the track samples? Outside of the same small handful of prime time names, the rest are largely just a little bit better than average. John Jarvis, Bryan Sutton, Paul Franklin are the only names I know (but I don't get out much). I have heard all I need from Brent Mason. I suppose there are other names in the jazz milieu that I just don't know about, but to look at pedal steel, it's mostly Paul Dunlop and Paul Franklin, and 3 other guys I have never heard of. Piano has 18 names, but only one I know at all. It is largely Miles Black, Blair Masters (who after researching I see is credited on 994 albums), Mike Rojas (1,239 albums), Jeff Lorber and John Jarvis. I know Jarvis and Lorber from having things they played on. 9 sax players. (None of them Norton, but he is probably too busy talking about himself, almost being signed by Motown, and flexing about playing "15 to 20 gigs a month" and on that whole fleet of cruise ships.) I honestly think the sameness would go away with some new blood. I don't know this side of it, but I would venture a guess that more fresh players would cost more fresh money, and the handfuls that are there now are already bought and paid for, so no new faces are likely to be forthcoming. And since we are not privy to such things who has been approached (if anybody) for new samples will remain speculation. To the topic of the thread, without a clear working definition of what AI actually is, BIAB is or isn't AI. If I go to a web page that draws AI faces, I can designate skin color, hair color, eye color, and gender, and the software spits out a person that does not exist. If I go to BIAB (RB in my case), I can tell it key, chord progression, tempo and style and it spits out a song that previously didn't exist. I don't see why one is considered AI and one isn't. Your coffee maker is in a sense AI. You put water in it at night, set a timer, and it makes your coffee when the timer tells it to start in the morning. That is AI in some sense.
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eddie1261
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Good ideas but how much money are you willing to pay for all of those suggestions. I can picture a range of $800 to $1000 USD for the compressed audio version. The question before that question is how much THEY are willing to pay for them. "Real" studio guys (meaning those we have actually heard of) are going to cost a lot of money to do this. I have not been around as long as many of you, but John Jarvis (now 69), Paul Franklin (also 69) and Brent Mason (now 64) have been present since I first started buying this software. I don't remember when that was, but I started writing songs for the CD that was finally done and released in 2015 way back in 2009 and those 3 names were prominent then. Jeff Lorber (now 70) is heavily present on the piano options. I honestly believe some fresh blood would give this stuff a fresh feel. As great as Mason is, everything of his sounds the same to me. When 2 or 3 names dominate an instrument category, logic says that generated parts using those 2 or 3 names will result in 2 or 3 remarkably similar outputs.
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Heck if the program does all that there is no need for ME! i might as well just listen to the radio since i had very little to do with it it was all done in the "box" oh by the way Joanne Cooper already took care of number one https://lyriclab.net
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Heck if the program does all that there is no need for ME! i might as well just listen to the radio since i had very little to do with it it was all done in the "box"
I have to gently disagree. If BiaB could do all this the user would still be able to * change the key * change the tempo * alter the chord progression * add additional instruments * delete existing instruments * change the style * alter the structure regarding verse, bridge, chorus, etc. * record one's self on chosen instrument and more. In my mind there would be no reason to remove any of the creativity/control we currently enjoy.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Plus one for this. There are thousands of people out there, of all ages, who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog. Band-in-a-box is a great tool for those who are patient enough to learn it but unless PG music moves quickly they will miss the opportunity to introduce their magnificent tool to these people.
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Joanne,
No disrespect, but I think you are severely misjudging the strata of folks you are talking about.
Those:
"who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog."
Are unlikely people to spend $200-$600+ on a software to "write" (if you can call that writing) something occasional for the causes you mentioned. What I think LIKELY would happen is that they will use some kind of a free online (AI assisted) service or $2-$20 a pop AI created tune. Or subscribe to such online service(s). Like advanced "Hallmark" postcard store.
Fortunately BIAB, for the most part is not about that.
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Rusty. I believe that everyone can benefit from the beauty and creativity of making music. It has always been so hard. But with AI and great tools like BIAB it does not need to be. Not to mention snobbery that often puts people off even trying.
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"beauty and creativity of making music..."
Right.. so lets see here... Program writes music, lyrics and sings for you. And what again you are "making" here? What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?
Is that what you call "making music" ?
People do enjoy nice postcards and sometimes can tastefully pick the one that looks good and that would even have a few nice "meaningful" words written. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, AI written music is not me "making music" or me trying to be "creative".
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If I could broaden this dicussion a bit it may be useful.
In my opinion, AI is going to partially, if not completely replace many workers, companies and complete sectors in our modern society. It doesn't matter if a particular entity does not want to be replaced. If the "competition" sees a way to do things cheaper, better or faster, then likely that will happen. In my view, those that adopt, embrace and innovate with AI will do better than those that don't.
One pundit has stated that AI will be as important to humankind as the wheel!
FWI, when I ask my AI assistant what sectors are likely to be replaced by AI, this was it's response (which may or may not fully come to pass):
AI is likely to replace jobs in various sectors, including:
* Tech jobs (Coders, computer programmers, software engineers, data analysts)
* Media jobs (advertising, content creation, technical writing, journalism)
* Legal industry jobs (paralegals, legal assistants)
* Market research analysts
* Teachers
* Finance jobs (Financial analysts, personal financial advisors)
* Traders
* Graphic designers
* Customer service representatives
* Receptionists
Is there anything else I can help you with?
To this list I will add weapon designers, war planners, diplomats, librarians, engineers of all kinds, medical researchers, mathematicians and more.
I'm not saying that I necessarily approve of all this, but I will say "human progress" will continue marching onward (assuming we don't destroy ourselves).
To be sure, this cuts deep personally because I happen to be in a couple of the above categories. But I also don't matter. Neither does any single individual on the planet.
"You have no choice but to operate in a world shaped by globalization and the information revolution. There are two options: adapt or die." - Andy Grove
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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BT, Of course AI will have an impact on industries/trades and music industry is not an exception. But are we talking about the industry here, or the other 95-99% of people who just like to tinker with music because they enjoy it? Thankfully cars didn't stop humans from walking in the past 100+ years (We do walk/move less because of cars and that unfortunately contributes to quite a few diseases.)
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"beauty and creativity of making music..."
Right.. so lets see here... Program writes music, lyrics and sings for you. And what again you are "making" here? What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?
Is that what you call "making music" ?
People do enjoy nice postcards and sometimes can tastefully pick the one that looks good and that would even have a few nice "meaningful" words written. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, AI written music is not me "making music" or me trying to be "creative".
AMEN! So many people are so unwilling to put real work into anything these days. Well, if that's "snobbery," then call me a snob. I can send a box of tissues to anyone who's feelings get hurt. I'm with MarioD. BIAB needs to be able to deal with time signatures properly.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
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Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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