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How might AI enhance the BIAB product line in the future?
Could it replace/enhance the current logic used in putting together a track performance?
Is there any initiative at PG Music to explore whether and how AI might be used in the future ?
Last edited by mrgeeze; 07/30/23 02:08 AM.
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Lets be honest.... who really hasn't already thought that there's some AI voodoo-hoodoo majic going on inside this box? But without actually confirming it with Dr. PG...... I'll bet they're already hard at work integrating AI in some form or another into the box.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Herb,
Somebody might correct if I am wrong, but BIAB is programmed algorithms with some randomization happening.
You can throw rocks at me, but I find AI + music a bit disturbing. In a sense, why would one even want to go that route? Not enough music "out there"? I think what we have now (the common tools: BIAB, EZkeys, Chording apps, Synths & arps) are borderline between advance tools and cookie molds. In my view, one has to tinker with music because they have a passion to create something new, to reflect thoughts, mood, protest, learn, or something of that nature.
Obviously, there is nothing wrong with experimenting with anything, but I think one has to ask a question: Why I am doing this?
Sure there is/will be many uses for AI in music such as Meditation, time spending, relaxation, not to mention technicalities (like mixing assist) embellishing, jingles for commercials, elevator music and whole bag of other uses.
Personally, I would not want more than 5-10% of AI in stuff I am tinkering with. And even that is more for learning purposes and tech assist. It's like this... Would you go to art school to learn how to "paint by number"?
--------------------------------------------
I believe...instead of asking PGmusic to do AI stuff, it's better to leave it to what they do best. Record talented musicians and make RTs/RDs/Midis and examples of styles. As far as AI stuff and BIAB goes...VST3 (and future variants) will most likely support AI tech in deep ways and in my opinion the best approach would be for PGmusic to fully integrate with VST/VSTi technology and make the best use of it such as: Routing, drag and drop and other input, ergonomics, etc.
P.S. A short example. With relatively new Chord Track, now you can relatively easily integrate whole bunch of pattern/sequence/arp items in your BIAB workflow (VSTi) such as NI, EZkeys, Synthmaster and dozens more. It was confirmed that VST3 support is coming to BIAB in 2024.... Well in 2023, for most of us, early buyers.
The end.
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The only reasonable role I can see a for A.I. in the current version/configuration is for creating melodies in the soloist/melodist section.
I've tried the melodist a few times to get a melody for a backing I'd built but junked 99% of what was offered.
That was a good thing because it pushed me back to collaborating again.
I don't use BIAB to auto generate anything but a scratch band arrangement, according to an amended style, based on my chord selections, structure etc. To be fair I replace much of that once in a DAW.
Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland...I can't imagine allowing A.I. to further generalise, average and data derive on top of that.
PLUS there's far too much work needed dealing with legacy code, "work-a-rounds" & glitches.
Last edited by rayc; 07/29/23 09:06 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though.
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There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though.
FWIW, we two humans prefer to do a bit more than tinker around the edges.  And we love those on demand great BiaB session players. J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
Item 3 above gets my vote. And someone recently posted difficulty in finding a style along the lines of Riders of the Storm by the Doors, so I know there is other interest in this enhancement. Here is a Wishlist post on this subject. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=101811&Number=769911#Post769911
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Good ideas but how much money are you willing to pay for all of those suggestions. I can picture a range of $800 to $1000 USD for the compressed audio version. I would much rather have PGMusic work on fixing current problems like time signatures, all tracks equal, etc, and improving and creating new styles and recording RTs and RDs. YMMV
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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eddie1261
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Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland. Couldn't that be at least part way remedied by bring in some new blood to play the track samples? Outside of the same small handful of prime time names, the rest are largely just a little bit better than average. John Jarvis, Bryan Sutton, Paul Franklin are the only names I know (but I don't get out much). I have heard all I need from Brent Mason. I suppose there are other names in the jazz milieu that I just don't know about, but to look at pedal steel, it's mostly Paul Dunlop and Paul Franklin, and 3 other guys I have never heard of. Piano has 18 names, but only one I know at all. It is largely Miles Black, Blair Masters (who after researching I see is credited on 994 albums), Mike Rojas (1,239 albums), Jeff Lorber and John Jarvis. I know Jarvis and Lorber from having things they played on. 9 sax players. (None of them Norton, but he is probably too busy talking about himself, almost being signed by Motown, and flexing about playing "15 to 20 gigs a month" and on that whole fleet of cruise ships.) I honestly think the sameness would go away with some new blood. I don't know this side of it, but I would venture a guess that more fresh players would cost more fresh money, and the handfuls that are there now are already bought and paid for, so no new faces are likely to be forthcoming. And since we are not privy to such things who has been approached (if anybody) for new samples will remain speculation. To the topic of the thread, without a clear working definition of what AI actually is, BIAB is or isn't AI. If I go to a web page that draws AI faces, I can designate skin color, hair color, eye color, and gender, and the software spits out a person that does not exist. If I go to BIAB (RB in my case), I can tell it key, chord progression, tempo and style and it spits out a song that previously didn't exist. I don't see why one is considered AI and one isn't. Your coffee maker is in a sense AI. You put water in it at night, set a timer, and it makes your coffee when the timer tells it to start in the morning. That is AI in some sense.
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eddie1261
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Good ideas but how much money are you willing to pay for all of those suggestions. I can picture a range of $800 to $1000 USD for the compressed audio version. The question before that question is how much THEY are willing to pay for them. "Real" studio guys (meaning those we have actually heard of) are going to cost a lot of money to do this. I have not been around as long as many of you, but John Jarvis (now 69), Paul Franklin (also 69) and Brent Mason (now 64) have been present since I first started buying this software. I don't remember when that was, but I started writing songs for the CD that was finally done and released in 2015 way back in 2009 and those 3 names were prominent then. Jeff Lorber (now 70) is heavily present on the piano options. I honestly believe some fresh blood would give this stuff a fresh feel. As great as Mason is, everything of his sounds the same to me. When 2 or 3 names dominate an instrument category, logic says that generated parts using those 2 or 3 names will result in 2 or 3 remarkably similar outputs.
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Heck if the program does all that there is no need for ME! i might as well just listen to the radio since i had very little to do with it it was all done in the "box" oh by the way Joanne Cooper already took care of number one https://lyriclab.net
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Heck if the program does all that there is no need for ME! i might as well just listen to the radio since i had very little to do with it it was all done in the "box"
I have to gently disagree. If BiaB could do all this the user would still be able to * change the key * change the tempo * alter the chord progression * add additional instruments * delete existing instruments * change the style * alter the structure regarding verse, bridge, chorus, etc. * record one's self on chosen instrument and more. In my mind there would be no reason to remove any of the creativity/control we currently enjoy.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Plus one for this. There are thousands of people out there, of all ages, who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog. Band-in-a-box is a great tool for those who are patient enough to learn it but unless PG music moves quickly they will miss the opportunity to introduce their magnificent tool to these people.
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Joanne,
No disrespect, but I think you are severely misjudging the strata of folks you are talking about.
Those:
"who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog."
Are unlikely people to spend $200-$600+ on a software to "write" (if you can call that writing) something occasional for the causes you mentioned. What I think LIKELY would happen is that they will use some kind of a free online (AI assisted) service or $2-$20 a pop AI created tune. Or subscribe to such online service(s). Like advanced "Hallmark" postcard store.
Fortunately BIAB, for the most part is not about that.
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Rusty. I believe that everyone can benefit from the beauty and creativity of making music. It has always been so hard. But with AI and great tools like BIAB it does not need to be. Not to mention snobbery that often puts people off even trying.
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"beauty and creativity of making music..."
Right.. so lets see here... Program writes music, lyrics and sings for you. And what again you are "making" here? What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?
Is that what you call "making music" ?
People do enjoy nice postcards and sometimes can tastefully pick the one that looks good and that would even have a few nice "meaningful" words written. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, AI written music is not me "making music" or me trying to be "creative".
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If I could broaden this dicussion a bit it may be useful.
In my opinion, AI is going to partially, if not completely replace many workers, companies and complete sectors in our modern society. It doesn't matter if a particular entity does not want to be replaced. If the "competition" sees a way to do things cheaper, better or faster, then likely that will happen. In my view, those that adopt, embrace and innovate with AI will do better than those that don't.
One pundit has stated that AI will be as important to humankind as the wheel!
FWI, when I ask my AI assistant what sectors are likely to be replaced by AI, this was it's response (which may or may not fully come to pass):
AI is likely to replace jobs in various sectors, including:
* Tech jobs (Coders, computer programmers, software engineers, data analysts)
* Media jobs (advertising, content creation, technical writing, journalism)
* Legal industry jobs (paralegals, legal assistants)
* Market research analysts
* Teachers
* Finance jobs (Financial analysts, personal financial advisors)
* Traders
* Graphic designers
* Customer service representatives
* Receptionists
Is there anything else I can help you with?
To this list I will add weapon designers, war planners, diplomats, librarians, engineers of all kinds, medical researchers, mathematicians and more.
I'm not saying that I necessarily approve of all this, but I will say "human progress" will continue marching onward (assuming we don't destroy ourselves).
To be sure, this cuts deep personally because I happen to be in a couple of the above categories. But I also don't matter. Neither does any single individual on the planet.
"You have no choice but to operate in a world shaped by globalization and the information revolution. There are two options: adapt or die." - Andy Grove
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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BT, Of course AI will have an impact on industries/trades and music industry is not an exception. But are we talking about the industry here, or the other 95-99% of people who just like to tinker with music because they enjoy it? Thankfully cars didn't stop humans from walking in the past 100+ years (We do walk/move less because of cars and that unfortunately contributes to quite a few diseases.)
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"beauty and creativity of making music..."
Right.. so lets see here... Program writes music, lyrics and sings for you. And what again you are "making" here? What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?
Is that what you call "making music" ?
People do enjoy nice postcards and sometimes can tastefully pick the one that looks good and that would even have a few nice "meaningful" words written. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, AI written music is not me "making music" or me trying to be "creative".
AMEN! So many people are so unwilling to put real work into anything these days. Well, if that's "snobbery," then call me a snob. I can send a box of tissues to anyone who's feelings get hurt. I'm with MarioD. BIAB needs to be able to deal with time signatures properly.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
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We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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