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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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It will probably be able to replace most things that are rule based or experience based on Big Data as in the list in the post above.
But I wonder how well it will be in those areas that are based on human feelings, touch and intuition.
When it comes to music it will probably be able to produce something that sounds decent and that many people find ok to listen to but will the results really be great or excellent? Something that hooked into the brain automatically once you heard it once?
Will it have the same edge and quality that music produced by real musicians who can play and sing their instruments have when letting their music and feelings flow from the brain to the instrument or the singers voice.
It is still only computers running algorithms over large quantities of data and refining their conclusions/results from experience learned/feedback. There is nothing like a human brain with its massive complexity involved.
So can an excellent and brilliant song melody/arrangement be composed by extracting information from and experience from other songs with excellent melodies/arrangements big hits? I doubt it.
Personally I can hardly recollect any melody from any songs that have been produced after the mid 80s.
But most hits and songs before that period had a strong melody line, rhythm and arrangement that got hooked into the brain almost automatically once you heard it once. And they are still strong.
Anything after that period I can hardly recollect at all, not a single melody, not even any titles of songs, and not even the artists (it leaves no impression)
My own theory is that it needs real musicians that can play and sing their instruments well with excellence that reflect their feelings at the moment, as well as good composers in order to produce a memorably song that sticks on at the first occasion it is heard.
Machine generated music, synth rythms, automatic generated arrangements, played instruments, melodies, whole songs and so on, it is music and it could be pleasant and ok to listen to at times but mostly for my own part it lacks something essential, something is missing, it is nothing that sticks or got hooked into the brain. But it is fun to play around with and for drafting ideas and training.
I guess it is the age.
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For me, AI is a natural fit for BIAB.
Wondering if we can't get PG Music himself to opine?
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
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Journeyman
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I also think some level of AI would be helpful in Biab.
I mainly looking for something that can help me narrow down and catch a specific feeling or characteristics of a song or idea that I am working on. I find the current search methods over styles completely useless.
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For me, AI is a natural fit for BIAB.
Wondering if we can't get PG Music himself to opine? I’m with you on this 100%. I get so many people asking if there is a way to integrate the ai assisted generated lyrics with band-in-a-box.
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[quote=JoanneCooper BassThumper. I am also on that list of people whose jobs may become obsolete with AI. I am a business analyst BUT am already using AI in my job to produce documentation at a hugely increased rate (and with a much better quality) so maybe while other business analysts are busy lamenting how AI put them out of work I will become valuable in another role entirely. Bring it on. [/quote] Joanne, don't let the naysayers discourage you. Spread those musical wings and fly! As for one of your jobs becoming obsolete, take heart. You are ahead of the game by adopting AI and that will be worth something in the long run, demonstrating you have a courageous readiness for the future. Remember that there were those that saw no benefit of the horseless carriage, the telephone and even the computer. Eventually, most of them end up changing their minds. I remember doing LP programming and optimization work back in the day using reference books such as: Spreadsheet Modeling and Decision AnalysisNow AI tools are available that do a far better job in a fraction of the time. This Forbes article may be of interest. https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2023/07/24/how-ai-is-revolutionizing-the-role-of-the-business-analyst/?sh=3b6d05052fe8The downside of course is what are all those workers that become obsolete going to do? I don't have that answer. But sci-fi may give us a clue. There was an episode of Star Trek Next Generation where the adolescent kids were learning advanced calculus as they travelled around the galaxy; presumably so they could do science when they reached adulthood.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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BT, If making music is your "job", that you want to get "more" efficient in. Sure, may those AI wings carry you to the stars. To me, music is simply a hobby in which, it is the process of finding my own way is what I like. Even if my tunes are ugly and one sided (that's what they are actually  ) Some people still love pooping horses, riding squeaky bicycles, walking, even if knees hurt, instead of driving, meeting friends instead of facebooking/texting and the list goes on. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. ------------------ But instead of making a word salad, lets go back to the topic of the thread. BIAB & AIThe only item that makes sense to me that was mentioned is finding proper style / assembling best musicians. +1 on that. I see all other AI requests a bit strange (to put it mildly). As I mentioned before, (if anybody listened?). I am certain that there will be many software companies offering AI assisted "music making" tools in the form of VST/VSTi. Companies with prime focus on AI... BIAB doesn't have to compete in that space, but simply make the process of adopting/integrating VST3(and future variants) to the most flexible extent. People wanted arpeggiator for BIAB.... How long would it take for PG team to write in-house ARP sequencer that would compete even with free titles?? Instead, they opened up Chord Track, which allows you to bring absolutely almost any VST arpeggiator (with it's own sound source). That was a simple and efficient step. I would rather see BIAB slimmer, more robust, more intuitive, fix known issues, time signatures, flexible VST routing, etc.
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Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland. Couldn't that be at least part way remedied by bring in some new blood to play the track samples? Outside of the same small handful of prime time names... Oh, definitely! The reason so many of the "styles" suggested, based on songs/artists nominated in the search box, are completely inadequate is that it's resourced by a limited number of players and recordings. The stuff labelled as "metal" & "punk" don't sound like those should sound because, largely, they aren't. There is an over supply of Mr. Mason: he's perfectly adequate across a range of styles but, because they are him, they all sound like him. As it stands I don't use him because the himness doesn't fit anything I do. There're no real new wave or punk bassntracks, no drums to suggest Happy Mondays, New Order or Joy Division and so on. I don't blame BIAB for these things - the catalogue is so heavily based on its jazz and country roots that it's a big ask & task to spread things. Your response is the reason I'm so critical of the style picker/chooser/thingy...check out the origins of the drums n bass and it's clear that the "style" is a stretch of more than the imagination. Nevertheless its a fab program.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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have no ability to ever play a solo. That's a personal opinion and it's extreme. I write songs, play most of the instruments and sing when I can't get someone else to. I usually don't play solos...I'm no good at it. I have trouble bending notes well enough to achieve the desired tension & release plus I really don't want to play them. They aren't what I'm interested in. On about four occasions I've opted for an heavily tweaked BIAB solo but I usually get someone who can do that sort of thing to do it. Oh, I could probably get away with a bass solo every time but there's a limited audience for that - particularly when I don't slap, twang, bend or create flurries of, notes. One of the most common reasons, aside from lack of learning, for a guitarist to restrict themselves to the 1st five frets is the poor set up/intonation of the cheapish instruments out there. Going further up the neck for chords often results in the mild dissonance of a reasonably tuned instrument becoming an obnoxious thing forcing the player - one who can't perform /doesn't know about intonation, back to the safe zone.
Last edited by rayc; 08/04/23 11:51 AM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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'There are too many Cowboy Chord guitar strummers out there who never leave the 3rd fret and have no ability to ever play a solo.' well, count me as one of them but the people who paid to see the band i was in were quite happy. i was the singer and the lead guitarist took the solos. and that description probably fits Johnny Cash................
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oh and on the topic of AI, in the 60s i worked during my student holidays for a major utility firm supplying gas to domestic customers.
when a meter reader couldn't get into the premises, the gas usage was estimated. however, if the estimate was too high, in some cases the next real reading was less than the previous estimated reading.
the computer then assumed the customer had gone all the way round the meter and sent a bill for thousands of pounds,
that was AI in action many years ago. a machine took a decision - or rather made an assumption and human customers suffered.
apart from a phenomenal increase in complexity what's the difference?
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'There are too many Cowboy Chord guitar strummers out there who never leave the 3rd fret and have no ability to ever play a solo.' well, count me as one of them but the people who paid to see the band i was in were quite happy. i was the singer and the lead guitarist took the solos. and that description probably fits Johnny Cash................ Well open chords in or around the third fret sound better usually anyways, though I can play a number of chords up the board, I do like the more open stuff.
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Joanne, I was speaking (actually typing) tongue in cheek! I actually bought and use lyriclab and find it useful I get a basic concept and revise it to make it mine. I use BiaB to create the track bed the rework it carefully to get a finished product. It takes work. It is amazing and wonderful that we can share our feelings, experiences, and stories with music. If AI helps get me started then I’ll use it. At that point we all have to roll up out sleeves and polish our creations.
Eddie’s point about the sad state of country music does have some merit. If I hear one more song about a red dirt road I’ll scream! I wrote a lyric yesterday with lyriclab in 2 minutes then spend 30 more refining them. I would say the end result is pretty good and I had the bigger investment of effort and time.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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I'm in total agreement on getting some new players involved in the making of real tracks and styles.
Absolutely ....
What is labeled as metal, plain and simple, isn't.
Rock and hard rock styles could certainly use some updating as well.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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.................... I actually bought and use lyriclab and find it useful I get a basic concept and revise it to make it mine. I use BiaB to create the track bed the rework it carefully to get a finished product. It takes work. It is amazing and wonderful that we can share our feelings, experiences, and stories with music. If AI helps get me started then I’ll use it. At that point we all have to roll up out sleeves and polish our creations.
...................... That is exactly how to use AI, as a helping hand and have it do a whole project. This is also how I use the Melodist and Soloist and I'm sure I will use AI in the near future. Red dirt road? That sounds like a song that I should do!
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Last edited by eddie1261; 08/01/23 04:10 AM.
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That was the original and a goot one!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Sure Eddie ruin my dream. Thanx a bunch 
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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eddie1261
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Sure Eddie ruin my dream. Thanx a bunch Well, had you come to Herbstock....
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This is an interesting topic,
Being a maths/engineer type I couldn't write good lyrics to save my life ha ha.
Chatting with my daughter (who happens to be studying a PhD in epidemiology) she told me there could be a big potential problem with plagiarism in scientific papers due to AI.
Let's not mention court cases involving Ed Sheeran about "melody similarities". And did you know Michael Jackson's riff for "Bad" is identical to Led Zeppelin's riff for "Heartbreaker", except for one note?
I heard that on a TV show - my ear is not good enough to tell, what do the experts think?
Determined to break Chat GPT, I asked my daughter to show me how to login to Chat GPT 3.5 (free) and I asked, "when was my grandmother born?". Yeah, that was an easy win.
But I then asked "write the first act of a play like Shakespeare" I was blown away by the result, very Shakespeare like with his iambic pentameter (with one soft beat and one strong beat repeated five times). That would be scary for an English Literature teacher marking homework.
I then asked Chat GPT to write a song about my boat called MilliBee - I was super impressed.
Then I said, "write it like the Rolling Stones" and got a rocky version of the song, with hints of you-know-who.
Then "write the melody", reply was "I can't draw music, but I can indicate music with letters", it then cranked out chords for the whole song in the key of C. A typical 4 chord classic rock sequence.
So while AI could be fun for amateur/semi-pro song writing, with large data sets growing 7% annually the chances of song "rip off" may grow to a level we won't be happy with. Do you end up suing the Chat GPT company?
Last edited by grandad_paul; 08/02/23 09:31 AM.
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AI from the 1990s vs AI from the 2000s.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
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You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
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Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
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We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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