Here's one I'm working on with Alison Reynold. No name as yet. It's slowish at 80bpm. It needs ears - any thoughts, suggestions and crits gleefully accepted. A VERY rough melody was worked out with MIDI by me and Alison took that, refined it, changed it to suit both mouth & mind. I think the 1st counter melody is unsuccessful but the 2nd seems better. Thanks in anticipation of your listening & commenting. BIAB elements RealDrums SoulRock70sEv^4 1155 organ reggae 2849 Midi Super Track organ (the reprise/outro only) 2296 Horn section Rhythm Slow 2792 Horn section background crooner 2803 Trumpet muted background crooner SOLO - acoustic guitar but I didn't save that and can't find it. LOTS of "multiriff"ing for that little part as well as cut, paste & so forth. Held Chord piano centred in verses and on the left in the choruses Tinkly piano on the right in the choruses (alternating with the trem guitar) Non BIAB ELEMENTS Bruno Royal Artist guitar four tracks, one with tremolo one plucked, one accents & one "chop", all through an AC Tone Joyo pedal with a cab sim managed by ReaVerb in Reaper Knockhofner bass DId. I'll have to suss out what microphone Alison is using. Tracked in Reaper with the PG Plugin Airwindows Iron Oxide Classic is the only non standard, for me, free VST used on this one - it's on the vocals and gives a little presence boost. W.I.P.
Here's a slight tweak with the 1st counter melody part dropped & some "warble" excised. WIP tweak 1
I tried B.D's suggestion about the vocal "sparkle". I was wary as sibilance is also accentuated in that freq. range. I was tempted to grab an exciter plufin but opted for the old "Motown Exciter" process, ( double the track, absolutely squash the track with heavy compression, add oodles & glops of top end through EQ, then blend in with the original to taste). here's the result: Sparkle mix
I tried Floyd Jane's suggestion - removed the horns and upped the organ...BUT...the reggae organ doesn't really cut it in that section. I tried every organ in BIAB within the tempo range & even after heaps of multiriffing the tracks had very weak, lazy offerings for about five bars. I then tried all of the Midi SuperTracks and found one that was okay but it had LOTS of silent parts so ended with blending the reggae organ in to flesh out those spots and using some volume automation to get the transition to fit. NO HORNS
Another tweak...I added some "inbetweenness" and ooomphed the organ even more as suggested by FJ, added more "air/sparkle" to the vocals and reduced the ice pick in the solo as per Misha. TWEAK 13/09
Adjustments made based on suggestions below..I dropped the SuperMidi organ as it didn't sound real enough & the phrasing was awful. I boosted the reggae organ and did some envelope automation for the dynamic change into the final sections. I reworked the lead vocal having checked the regular EQ & Span to find that there was no visible, nor to me audible, dip in the upper freqs. that wasn't in the untreated audio. I'm yet to get brutal with the acoustic guitar fills - some seem a little limp & should go. 14/09 mix
Lyrics (not too great but they'll do) V1 One step One word One thought One day One plea One love Once all that was me then Two steps Two words Too late To see To try, (twice me to be or not to be) To fail, To be or to not be. C1 Is this, is this real? Is this all that we can ever be? Is this the total deal? What do you What do you Want from me? What can I do, If it's true?
V2 Three steps Three words Three lives Three see Three hours Thrice gone Three is more than are we then Four steps Forewords Forethought Foresee Forewarned Fourth time (for me to be or not to be) For t'was not to be C2 Is this where we stand? Is this how it will be, will it be ? Is this what we had planned? What do you What do you Want from me? What can I do, If it's true? (if it's true) Rep Is this, is this real? Is this all that we can ever be? Here're some images of how the BIAB drums, (struggling as ever to removed the over represented batter/click on the bass drum head) in particular, have been treated. Bass has a sharp notch up high to counter some of the M & R Interference I encounter here. There's also an over view of the entire project as well as the chord chart. Click on any & select "open in a new tab" to be able to see details if desired:
Last edited by rayc; 09/13/2308:22 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
It's not likely it needs my ears, Ray. They're too biased; they already like what you do before I push play.
I really dig the lyrics with the numerical progression. Very clever. Work In Progress is actually a good title. The Bard's question is good too: To Be Or Not To Be.
Now, to the song... I like the progression at its lethargic pace. With Allison in the mix, you really can't go wrong. Good dynamics. I see no bass listed. Is that you? Either way I like it. Well, I gave it a couple spins and I still like it. As good as it is, I know you're gonna make it even better, and I'll be looking forward to the progress.
For a first version, your W.I.P. is already quite mature. LOVE the lyrics, even when you think they are not that great.
Since "Is This Real" is a bit too cliché, I suggest "Is This the Total Deal" as the song title. As a listener I would be curious to listen to a song with that title.
The vocals could use a little more sparkle, right now they're a bit dull and don't cut through well.
One more suggestion: the chorus already has a nice Pink Floyd vibe, maybe this direction could be explored further (organ a bit louder, maybe one of those BIAB gospel choirs in the background, you get the idea).
Ray, I really like this. It sounds like it could be an outtake from an early Velvet Underground record, featuring Nico. The acoustic solo sounds great - like it was played live. Great build towards the end of the song. I'm not sure I would change anything. It has a very special sound and feeling as it stands now. Bob
Thank you Bob, Yeah, the solo is grand - I was so busy with it I neglected to save that iteration of the song in BIAB - fool that I am. I've the VU box set filled with outtakes, versions et al. It would've influenced me - how could it not?
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
It's not likely it needs my ears, Ray. They're too biased; they already like what you do before I push play.
I really dig the lyrics with the numerical progression. Very clever. Work In Progress is actually a good title. The Bard's question is good too: To Be Or Not To Be.
Now, to the song... I like the progression at its lethargic pace. With Allison in the mix, you really can't go wrong. Good dynamics. I see no bass listed. Is that you? Either way I like it. Well, I gave it a couple spins and I still like it. As good as it is, I know you're gonna make it even better, and I'll be looking forward to the progress.
Thanks Marty, Yes, bass is me with my Knockhofner. Slight tweak in the O.P.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
For a first version, your W.I.P. is already quite mature. LOVE the lyrics, even when you think they are not that great.
Since "Is This Real" is a bit too cliché, I suggest "Is This the Total Deal" as the song title. As a listener I would be curious to listen to a song with that title.
The vocals could use a little more sparkle, right now they're a bit dull and don't cut through well.
One more suggestion: the chorus already has a nice Pink Floyd vibe, maybe this direction could be explored further (organ a bit louder, maybe one of those BIAB gospel choirs in the background, you get the idea).
Thanks B.D.T., The entire lyric is cliche but I know what you mean. I'll look at sparkle - but have to be careful about lifting sibilant sounds at the same time. I tried the louder organ and ended up raising it in the 2nd half of the verse and I found more organ in the chorus buried the interplay between piano & trem guitar. Nice idea though - ta. I suspect the use of gospel vocals may spoil the surprise of the horns entering. I gave it a go though and I was right...it made the change from sparse to lush less dynamic.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
(tweak 1) Nice Swampy beginning. Then had to immediately look to see what Drums you used. LOVE 'em!! Alison's vocals are Superb. Perfectly processed. Just the right amount of questioning emotion. And...at the PERFECT level. Weaving amongst the tracks. No lyric sheet required. Bass is JUST right. Guitars are JUST right. Peaking through at all the right places. Yes, I wanted to organ louder. The nylon lead was a surprise. A really Good one. I was underwhelmed by the horns. They are nicely done - for what they are - but...for me, they seemed slightly out-of-place (and if they are stopping the organ from having its full voice.... well....)
"Four steps Forewords Forethought Foresee Forewarned Fourth time (for me to be or not to be) For t'was not to be"
LOVE this write. Truly "clever" without hitting-you-over-the-head with Clever.
This is very close right outta the chute. One of your best! Hitting on all (or most) cylinders.
Hi Ray. I like the idea but not keen on the gaps in between lines all the way through. It feels like I'm waiting for something to happen in the chorus and when the chorus comes, nothing happens.
As I said, I like the idea and it's worth persuing.
Sounds pretty good already to me, Ray. Very cool chord progression, and I'm always a fan of laid back grooves. I thought the lyrics were pretty good actually Alison sounds great, and your bass playing is rock solid. I like the way the song builds at the end, very effective. Looking forward to seeing where you take this!
Thank you sir.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
(tweak 1) Nice Swampy beginning. Then had to immediately look to see what Drums you used. LOVE 'em!! Alison's vocals are Superb. Perfectly processed. Just the right amount of questioning emotion. And...at the PERFECT level. Weaving amongst the tracks. No lyric sheet required. Bass is JUST right. Guitars are JUST right. Peaking through at all the right places. Yes, I wanted to organ louder. The nylon lead was a surprise. A really Good one. I was underwhelmed by the horns. They are nicely done - for what they are - but...for me, they seemed slightly out-of-place (and if they are stopping the organ from having its full voice.... well....) This is very close right outta the chute. One of your best! Hitting on all (or most) cylinders. fj
Thank you Floyd, The drums are pretty cool straight from BIAB though I did need to EQ and compress. Yes, Alison's tracks arrived in good form. I admit to using a bit of compression to even the levels a bit and some automation to reduce sibilant stuff. Organ, in mix two it's louder in the 2nd half of the verses. Oddly the solo is a steel string acoustic - doesn't sound it but I tried to search for the RT once I realized I'd not noted it - I couldn't find anything similar in nylon..so have to assume it's steel. I'll try a mix without the horns, (they've been in, out, more, fewer as I tinkered...what keeps them there is that really cool Pap, Pap Pahhh at the end of the chorus), and post it for your thoughts.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Hi Ray. I like the idea but not keen on the gaps in between lines all the way through. It feels like I'm waiting for something to happen in the chorus and when the chorus comes, nothing happens. As I said, I like the idea and it's worth persuing. Vic
Thanks Vic, I understand what you mean about the gaps ...in fact they get longer in the chorus. All very deliberate on my part though as, to my mind, they reflect the emptiness of the narrator and, in the chorus, I found my brain filling in the gaps with repeats or answers. While it was an opportunity to flesh those out I rather like the idea of that sort of listener participation. I'll pursue the song to a conclusion. Ta.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray I think I'm with floyd on the horns. I liked the song. Was wondering what it might sound like with a bit of acoustic guitar strumming along. Nice guitar solo by the way.
Ray (and Alison) Neat, dark and deep composition. I like lyrics / word play on this. Intense stuff. Seems Alison picked up mood very well. I briefly listened to original and gave good spins on "sparkle" and "no horns". I think vocals are a bit muddy, even on very "bright" headset (I tried 2). My hearing is not that good, but it seems to me it's not the frequency "fight", but EQing of actual vocals that suffers. They ask for more clarity. A complete opposite is the guitar parts from 2:44-3:12. It seems way too bright and too "natural", which makes it stand out significantly, compared to the rest of arrangement. Perhaps that is how you intended. I didn't read what others suggested. These are my opinions. Regardless, it seems you are almost there Thank you for sharing, Misha.
P.S. I was working on a tune recently and mix was driving me cuckoo, I ended up killing most of FX and started fresh. In about an hour I had better results than in prior 4 Not suggesting an overhaul, just sharing my experience.
I think this is a really cool start, but there's something about the rhythm that seems sluggish to me and I can't quite put my finger on it.
But a song that's this slow in tempo has to sound organically or spontaneously slow and at this current point to me it sounds mechanically slow, like the singer's trying to force slow vocals over a slow mechanical sounding bed.
I'm not sure that anyone has discovered the true Spirit of the song and the spookiness involved in it.
And for some reason I can't help feeling that the main instruments like the guitars and stuff are going to have to be played live along with the singer to capture the ethereal nature of it.
I'm only one person, but I think this is too ethereal to have the main instruments be backing tracks. I think it needs more of a live, flowing feel.
But having said that I really like the direction that it's going in.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Soo, listened to all the versions again, so far TWEAK 13/09 is my favorite, even though the vocals still sound like she's holding her hand between her lips and the mic. Some upper range is missing. Could be that's how it's miked and a brighter microphone would be a solution for the next song.
Ray I think I'm with floyd on the horns. I liked the song. Was wondering what it might sound like with a bit of acoustic guitar strumming along. Nice guitar solo by the way.
Peter
Thanks Peter, I tried the strum but, as Alison sings across the rhythm in spots, it cause a bit of conflict.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray (and Alison) Neat, dark and deep composition. I like lyrics / word play on this. Intense stuff. Seems Alison picked up mood very well. I briefly listened to original and gave good spins on "sparkle" and "no horns". I think vocals are a bit muddy, even on very "bright" headset (I tried 2). My hearing is not that good, but it seems to me it's not the frequency "fight", but EQing of actual vocals that suffers. They ask for more clarity. A complete opposite is the guitar parts from 2:44-3:12. It seems way too bright and too "natural", which makes it stand out significantly, compared to the rest of arrangement. Perhaps that is how you intended. I didn't read what others suggested. These are my opinions. Regardless, it seems you are almost there Thank you for sharing, Misha.
P.S. I was working on a tune recently and mix was driving me cuckoo, I ended up killing most of FX and started fresh. In about an hour I had better results than in prior 4 Not suggesting an overhaul, just sharing my experience.
Thanks Misha, I've addressed the guitar and have reworked the vocals based on your observations.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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