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I had a go at one of Patterson's courses online.
It was wonky & hokey.
Insisting that the only syllables that should be counted in a consideration of prosody were the "stressed" ones.
Lots of stuff like that through out.
He would also take an example song - one by a student - a song with some quirks, individuality and he'd make the student change things bit by bit & one by one until it was generic and smooth.
NOT recommended unless you want to follow rules and join a herd.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Songwriting
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I had a go at one of Patterson's courses online.
It was wonky & hokey.
Insisting that the only syllables that should be counted in a consideration of prosody were the "stressed" ones.
Lots of stuff like that through out.
He would also take an example song - one by a student - a song with some quirks, individuality and he'd make the student change things bit by bit & one by one until it was generic and smooth.
NOT recommended unless you want to follow rules and join a herd. I gotta agree. I took an online course by him a few years back and it was just awful!
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Songwriting
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I picked up one of his books and it was as dry as reading the telephone book.
I really didn't find it to be useful in any sort of actual way. I don't think I even finished reading it. Yep, it was that boring and repetitive.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I had great experiences taking his courses (on zoom during the pandemic) and enjoyed his books. I do not strictly follow any of the techniques, but, I am aware of them and it makes the edits and writing easier. After the first course (I think it was his Master Class), a few participants got together (virtually on zoom) for weekly song circles. The circle is still going with some of the original members. We also created an annual (in-person), songwriting retreat (Blueberry Mtn Songwriting Weekend) near Ottawa. I have not seen the video series posted (above) by the Youtube channel "How to write songs". But, I will have a listen as I do like their stuff too. As far as online videos on Pat's teachings, I like this one: Pat Pattison's master class If you like the song edits he does here, it could be worth checking out. Cheers, and happy writing, Chad
Last edited by ChadHC; 11/21/23 11:39 AM.
Chad
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I had great experiences taking his courses (on zoom during the pandemic) and enjoyed his books. I do not strictly follow any of the techniques, but, I am aware of them and it makes the edits and writing easier. This is my experience, too. Up until 2003, I had no idea how to write lyrics. Then I went to a live session of Pat Pattison's in Melbourne (where I live). This session got me started on what would become an immense learning journey. Since then, I've been to many live sessions with Pat and his various guests as well as sessions with other songwriters, and I've picked up a vast number of things along the way. I've worked through all of Pat's books and have done all the exercises. I have no doubts at all that my lyrics reflect what I have learnt from him. If it wasn't for him, I'd still be trying to work out how to write words to songs! Whether my lyrics are good or bad, I don't know, but I do know that I can now create complete songs and not just music. Pat's approach to writing lyrics reflects his substantial background in poetry. (He is a professor of poetry and lyric writing at Berklee College in Boston.) --Noel • my latest song: Every Single Day (a duet with Synth V vocaloids, Kevin & Natalie)
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Pat has a fantastic way to articulate instruction, imparting skills on the importance of clarity, and making lyrics shine.
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Raymond,
I am not sure about all of that, but I can say this:
I am not sure why Mr. Pattison and other so-called teachers continually fail to mention the pivotal role of blotter acid and a bag of good Mexican homegrown in the creation of the most sophisticated song lyrics.
For example, if you listen hermeneutically to the phenomenal demographic exegesis in Hotel California, you will almost certainly detect a profound understanding of psilocybin and the counterpoint enhancing contributions of some A+ grade THC.
To miss the importance of these natural enhancers, along with the counterbalancing after effects of bourbon or whiskey consumed in the largest possible quantities, is to miss the very essence of artistic indulgence itself, and the supreme recklessness and abandonment of logic that has always led to the most interesting chord progressions and melodies in modern music.
I must protest this boldly and state that I have no more time for this type of balderdash.
Thank you, and steady on.
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For example, if you listen hermeneutically to the phenomenal demographic exegesis in Hotel California, you will almost certainly detect a profound understanding of psilocybin and the counterpoint enhancing contributions of some A+ grade THC. I can remember someone asking Procol Harem's Keith Reid what drugs he was on when he wrote the Lyrics to "A Whiter Shade Of Pale" and Keith's answer was "I could never have written something like that if I'd been stoned.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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I can remember someone asking Procol Harem's Keith Reid what drugs he was on when he wrote the Lyrics to "A Whiter Shade Of Pale" and Keith's answer was "I could never have written something like that if I'd been stoned. A very good answer. I like it.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Raymond,
I am not sure about all of that, but I can say this:
I am not sure why Mr. Pattison and other so-called teachers continually fail to mention the pivotal role of blotter acid and a bag of good Mexican homegrown in the creation of the most sophisticated song lyrics.
For example, if you listen hermeneutically to the phenomenal demographic exegesis in Hotel California, you will almost certainly detect a profound understanding of psilocybin and the counterpoint enhancing contributions of some A+ grade THC.
To miss the importance of these natural enhancers, along with the counterbalancing after effects of bourbon or whiskey consumed in the largest possible quantities, is to miss the very essence of artistic indulgence itself, and the supreme recklessness and abandonment of logic that has always led to the most interesting chord progressions and melodies in modern music.
I must protest this boldly and state that I have no more time for this type of balderdash.
Thank you, and steady on. Assisted writing? Having watched & participated in some of the man's teaching all I can offer is that he likes uniformity, rules, uniformity, structures, uniformity and things his way. There're a few Berserkly "YouTubers" who pontificate on making music or how music works. Some like Henning Pauly of HP42 are so obsessed with "the rules" that their music sounds like it's built from a join the dots system while others like Adam Neely find solace in "the Rules" occasionally as balance to challenging them on performance & theoretical levels. Neither appears to dip a finger into the the beaker though. I used assisted writing techniques, inadvertently, when at college...when a handy dorm wall provided the perfect surface for lyrical conceits after a trip down the frog'n' to the rubberty for a glass of cheer.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Songwriting
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I wouldn't give 2¢ to that pompous blowhard. Anyone who insists on following silly "rules" for songwriting has no understanding of what can make a song great.
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I wouldn't give 2¢ to that pompous blowhard. Anyone who insists on following silly "rules" for songwriting has no understanding of what can make a song great. Mike! At long last, we're 100% in agreement on something! It's a New Year miracle! 
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I have tried a Patisson course before, didn't like it all all, though others will beg to differ. Out of curiosity has he ever written or co -wrote a well known song himself.
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Roger,
It's David Snyder, your official NSAI buddy here on the forum.
I see you are an "apprentice."
Does that mean you have never written a song?
If so, I would highly encourage you to come to my summer camp and learn how to write a song with a catchy hook and the title in the chorus.
I will also teach you how to use Nashville Notation, and hopefully you will one day make it to the top of the Golden Pyramid.
If you act now, I will give you 10% off the four day fee of $6,000. Hurry!! Act now before it's too late.
Happy New Year and early April 1st.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jul 2019
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Apprentice
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Well played, David.
I see that you've learned the Pattison method well...
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
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