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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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When I step-enter my melody in a tune in C Major, the accidentals automatically default to flats. However, a number of my melody notes are #9-->Maj3rd. For example, over an F7 chord, I want G#-->A. When I use Force Accidental, the G# reverts back to Ab when I hit play.
What to do?
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2026 (1237)
64 bit application
RealBand 2026 (4)
Windows 11 Home
Intel(R) Core(TM) 5 120U (1.40 GHz)
12.0 GB (11.7 GB usable)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 694
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OP
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Posts: 694 |
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2026 (1237)
64 bit application
RealBand 2026 (4)
Windows 11 Home
Intel(R) Core(TM) 5 120U (1.40 GHz)
12.0 GB (11.7 GB usable)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yep, I think you found another bug. I could not get a satisfactory result either. This is my test before pressing play. My test song is in C Major. I ensure that I forced the accidental to display G# ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26092&filename=2023-12-04_19-48-21.jpg) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26093&filename=2023-12-04_19-46-45.jpg) And immediately I press Play: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26094&filename=2023-12-04_19-47-28.jpg) Enharmonic notation is not sticking.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have the same problem and since I use a lot of tritone substitutions, reading the melody notes become somewhat difficult.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm going to report this to the developers as a bug.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OK, I'm basically a musician - very little knowledge of these finer issues of music production/creation. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what a forced accidental is? The two words of the term seem mutually contradictory to me. I'm just an old guy who made a good living by playing guitar, but now trying to learn about music creation/production, etc. Thanks in advance.
Alan
BIAB 2024 Ultra Plus-all StylePaks*Win11*32GB DDR5*Rhyzen 9745x*AT 2035 Mic*Peavey Nashville 112 Amp*Ibanez ART120* Acoustic/Electric/Washburn D200S Acoustic*Stromberg Monterey Jazz Guitar Loops: https://aldavidmusic.wixsite.com/bestmusicloops
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Alan, I’ll give it a basic go.
There are many rules in music notation, and if you break them it should be for a good reason. One of those is not to mix sharps and flats in the same chord because it’s confusing and harder to read. Let’s say I have this chord: C root, Eb, F#
It is better written as C, Eb, Gb
There are two rules at work in this simple diminished chord. 1) don’t mix sharps and flats, and 2) skip a letter when going up the scale.
Those two rules sometimes come into conflict. Another general practice is to use sharps in ascending melodic lines, flats when descending.
In BIAB it is critical for both sound and notation to set the key signature, but if you have a short section of music playing in another key for a few bars, BIAB can get confused. There are also some cases where I admit I don’t know why BIAB makes the choices it does, and I’ve written for symphony orchestras. But remember, composers break the rules and they don’t always agree.
For all those reasons BIAB makes it possible to select a note and Force Accidental. You can change an F# to its enharmonic equivalent Gb for example. Same pitch, but different note names where the context determines which is the better choice.
With that as background, this thread is about the Forced Accidental not quite working correctly.
Hope that helped.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Matt ...
Thank you very much. I have a much better understanding of the issue. I appreciate your time for the explanation.
You, and John Ford when he was more active here, do as much as anybody - more than many - to help us less knowledgeable users of the great PG Music software. I appreciate that.
Alan
PS: I'd like to also include Audio Track as being very helpful in assisting others with questions.
Last edited by Al-David; 12/04/23 03:43 PM.
BIAB 2024 Ultra Plus-all StylePaks*Win11*32GB DDR5*Rhyzen 9745x*AT 2035 Mic*Peavey Nashville 112 Amp*Ibanez ART120* Acoustic/Electric/Washburn D200S Acoustic*Stromberg Monterey Jazz Guitar Loops: https://aldavidmusic.wixsite.com/bestmusicloops
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Matt ...
I appreciate that.
Alan Me too... Thanks Matt.
Bandcamp Win-11; BiaB-2026 Audiophile (latest version)
Cakewalk Sonar; Melodyne-5; Scaler 3; NI Komplete:
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You are most welcome. Glad to help. And +1 for AudioTrack and for John Ford.
In the case cited, I actually think BIAB is correct, using the 'skip a letter' rule. I would always write an Ab in an F7 chord, never a G#. I'm not terribly surprised BIAB is balking at the request for G#, but as long as the capability is there, I suppose you ought to be able to 'force' it even when it's not wise.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I would always write an Ab in an F7 chord, never a G#. I'm not terribly surprised BIAB is balking at the request for G#, but as long as the capability is there, I suppose you ought to be able to 'force' it even when it's not wise. Matt, I totally agree with both points you have mentioned.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Matt,
Back in 1959 and 1960 - when I was in Junior High School - I played trumpet (your primary instrument?), coronet, French horn - anything with three valves and in the treble clef. I've not played anything but guitar, bass, and some keys since. I no longer can appreciably read notation. But, I do have a very good knowledge of chord structure and how to properly use them. At nearly 77 years old, I'm trying to learn the technical issues of recording music. Again, thanks for being on the teaching part of that learning curve. I'll leave you alone now!
Alan
BIAB 2024 Ultra Plus-all StylePaks*Win11*32GB DDR5*Rhyzen 9745x*AT 2035 Mic*Peavey Nashville 112 Amp*Ibanez ART120* Acoustic/Electric/Washburn D200S Acoustic*Stromberg Monterey Jazz Guitar Loops: https://aldavidmusic.wixsite.com/bestmusicloops
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ha. Alan, everywhere I play, people tell me they USED to play trumpet. I wonder what they know that I don't. On Saturday I played the Hallelujah Chorus on piccolo trumpet. Now that's a killer and I'm only a few years behind you (been playing professionally since 1962).
Actually, my main instrument is the flugelhorn.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ha. Alan, everywhere I play, people tell me they USED to play trumpet. I wonder what they know that I don't. On Saturday I played the Hallelujah Chorus on piccolo trumpet. Now that's a killer and I'm only a few years behind you (been playing professionally since 1962).
Actually, my main instrument is the flugelhorn. "I wonder what they know that I don't." Perhaps it's more of an issue they weren't able to realize their talent, or simply didn't have the talent, as you do. "On Saturday I played the Hallelujah Chorus on piccolo trumpet." I assume a four-valve rather than a three-valve. I made my first dollar (actually, eight dollars) playing at a small lounge in St. Charles, Missouri in August of 1963.
Last edited by Al-David; 12/04/23 06:06 PM.
BIAB 2024 Ultra Plus-all StylePaks*Win11*32GB DDR5*Rhyzen 9745x*AT 2035 Mic*Peavey Nashville 112 Amp*Ibanez ART120* Acoustic/Electric/Washburn D200S Acoustic*Stromberg Monterey Jazz Guitar Loops: https://aldavidmusic.wixsite.com/bestmusicloops
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Almost got it. Yes, my piccolo has 4 valves. No, I only played the first 3!
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In the case cited, I actually think BIAB is correct, using the 'skip a letter' rule. I would always write an Ab in an F7 chord, never a G#. I'm not terribly surprised BIAB is balking at the request for G#, but as long as the capability is there, I suppose you ought to be able to 'force' it even when it's not wise. You wouldn't want to have Ab-->A in the melody, would you? I'm thinking #9, which should be G#. It's hard to sightread Ab-->A.
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2026 (1237)
64 bit application
RealBand 2026 (4)
Windows 11 Home
Intel(R) Core(TM) 5 120U (1.40 GHz)
12.0 GB (11.7 GB usable)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, G# is a #9 in an F7 chord.
No, I have no problem with seeing Ab then A natural in a melody. If it's in the same measure, you must use a natural sign on the A natural. If the A natural is the start of the next measure, I might use a courtesy accidental natural sign.
Can you give us enough of the chord progression, along with the melody notes?
Although as I mentioned I like sharps in ascending lines (G# to A) I can't give an opinion without the full picture.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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