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1.the problem. some budget audio interfaces dont have enough gain for some microphones....often dynamic mics....thus a user has to crank the mic pre gain on the interface near its max. 2..the solution. although my interface has enough gain as i use a condenser mic for my vocals often....(i do loads of vocal tracks...)... ive been interested for some time in testing out what is known as an IN LINE PREAMP...and see what results i might get. the advantage being that one doesnt need to crank the input gain as much on the interface. basically the in line preamp connects tween the microphone and the mic pre input of the interface....and the ilp is powered by the interface 48 v phantom power. there are various manufacturers of ilp's. the one ive been testing for some time is the triton fet head....with around 20 db gain....and bottom line i am impressed with its quality and performance. there are cheaper ilp's out there and more expensive. as i understand it the triton uses high qua!ity low noise jfet's. so why am i impressed ? basically...ive used in commercial studios very high end pricey mic preamps in the past....and compareing my vocals on songs done useing that pro gear...the fethead plus my audient interface holds up very well. (i like the audient mic pre's plus its very low latency and lack of hassles.) considering the very low total price of audient interface plus fethead...i cant find anything i can complain about...in fact i love the results i am getting and the character or mojo of my recorded vocals. all 3 songs on soundcloud in my sig used the fethead/audient combo. if anyone wants a listen...use earbuds... ..the pretty girls old skool song is my love for my lovely wife.. and by contrast.. ..the stallion is a rocker inspired by a neighbour that purchased an amazeing car that goes like the proverbial clappers...and.. ..banker man...my first bluegrass song that came about because i was helping a pg user who is into bluegrass. so i thought why not try the genre and see if i fall flat on my face. ie a challenge. so far folks have told me they like the three songs. thanks fethead cos....all three songs used the fethead/audient combo on my vocals and .just the pg dx plug ins which i like. bottom line...the fethead ilp is a keeper imho.and is part of my signal chain now. note...there are various models of fethead for both dynamic ribbon and condenser mics. ive been meaning to post the above for some time...but been busy. hope this helps someone with the problem of not enough audio interface gain. even if you DO have a nice interface you might want to research and even demo a fethead or competitor and see if it floats your boat. ps...in case anyone is thinking...as these are crazy times...i have no link with triton nor have a received any compenstion. this is my own little helper post in case a pg user has the problem outlined in the intro. link is... www.tritonaudio.commerry xmas to all. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/16/23 09:01 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Others on the market are the CloudLifter, and the one I’ve used for several years, the dBooster from Royer.
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Matt.
merry xmas.
fyi...klark technic make a very inexpensive ilp.
i chose the triton cos so many people seemed happy.
fyi ive contacted a few well known interface manufacturers and suggested the following....
..some pro mic pres can provide a gain range over 75 db and more.
one problem is of course people involved in recording distant nature sounds etc.
..powerfull extra headphone outs.
..second set of speaker outs.
one option ive heard people try is useing a normal audio mixer with direct outs post mic pre and then into interface input.
why have direct outs disappeared on lots of gear...lol...?
only budget audio mixer ive found with direct outs or inserts is soundcraft epm 8.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/16/23 05:20 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Others on the market are the CloudLifter, and the one I’ve used for several years, the dBooster from Royer. Besides boosting, they correct the impedance mismatch that affects Shure and a few other dynamic mics. See below for a link to an excellent article on the subject. All of the ones you mention are good. Unfortunately, I must caution against the Klark Teknik Mic Boosters. These are brought to you by the same company that owns Behringer. Although some products are now good, I can't say that about the mic boosters which are cheap, poorly made and often noisy. This is too bad since they are the least expensive ones out there. Triton Audio also makes variations on the FETHead that don't exist anywhere else. Besides owning a quartet of the dynamic mic version, I own a couple for boosting headroom on some of my condenser mics, too. My favorite is the variable impedance Cloudlifter CL-Z . I only own one and wish it wasn't so pricey. It is my go-to for any of my ribbon mics and I use the variableΩ knob to tune low end response. It's easy to make the variable Ω box to use between your mic and any other booster. All you need is a small, metal box, a little wire, a pair of surface mount XLR jacks (one each M & F), a 1kΩ variable resistor and a knob. Here's an article on impedance and dynamic mics that explains what such a box does and how to make an in-line version with a fixed Ω. A properly terminated SM57 can be a really flattering mic with a nice top and smooth bottom—unlike the normal response generated by plugging into a 1300Ω–2400Ω solid state PA system, mixer or interface. Those were designed for the 600Ω Bell telephone standard that tube preamps were normally built to before the 1970s—so was the Vocal Master PA if anyone remembers those.
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I've used a number of these inline preamps, but so far I haven't found one that's worth keeping. I've also built a few DIY ones, some of which are really good, but still more often than not I just plug straight in - even with my SM7B's.
In general, if your mic preamp has enough gain and a low enough noise floor, these inline preamps can actually add more noise. For me, I had better results just with my preamps.
However, everyone's situation is different - I'm an electronics technician, and for the most part I use preamps that I custom designed and built (which also have an impedance control). My Focusrite 18i20's preamps are also stellar. However if like most people you're using whatever's in your interface then most likely you'll see some improvement.
Basically what I'm saying is, adding more electronics to the signal chain is not necessarily better.
I work here
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Simon.
not heard from you awhile...
merry xmas.
as i said ive compared with other vocs i have done in big studios.
maybe you wont like em...but im pretty pleased with the 3 songs vocs in my sig that used the fet head...but my fethead/mic combo is different.
my fethead is the one for condenser mics. the vocs in my sig used fethead plus condenser mic.
i searched for a diy schematic but couldnt find one re jfets.
happiness.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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... adding more electronics to the signal chain is not necessarily better. I thought precisely the same, though the subject line is about lack of gain. If one has a good preamp, then they really should not be needed. A curiosity to me was the use of JFETs, which are not as quiet as good bipolars and struggle even to equal a good IC OpAmp. But JOM seemed to like them. Matt seemed to like them, Mike seemed to think they had benefits, though mostly the variable impedance ones. (I wonder which method they use to do that). For little more than the cost of a pair of FET-Heads, one can buy a Focusrite 2i2, a UA Volt 2, or others. I do wonder how much the supposed benefits are purely psychological ... I've paid for this, the manufacturer says it's better, so it must be better. I note that Triton don't actually publish a detailed spec, but I also note that many preamps don't list gain ranges. FWIW, I once had a Hi-Fi store demonstration have me doubting my assertion that cables cannot be directional, until I realised that their own bias was causing them to turn the volume slightly higher for the "correct direction".
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gordon.
merry x to you.
no confirmation bias here. i have a good relationship with my local gear store....i can send back stuff i dont like.
from my digging apparently the triton doesnt use the run of the mill jfets.
i saw i think on you tube someone tested for noise at minus 130 db.
considering lots of mics are minus 55 db so i dont worry.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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gordon.
merry x to you.
no confirmation bias here. i have a good relationship with my local gear store....i can send back stuff i dont like.
from my digging apparently the triton doesnt use the run of the mill jfets.
i saw i think on you tube someone tested for noise at minus 130 db.
considering lots of mics are minus 55 db so i dont worry.
om One has to be very wary of dB. For anything meaningful like this it needs a reference. Just dB alone is only a ratio and unless one knows to what, it's. The figure for the microphones is related to a sound level (94dB SPL), whilst the preamp is typically to 1mW in 600R (1.228Vrms). Picking a good dynamic mic at random (AKG D5) I see 2.5mV/Pascal, or 54 dB below that 1mW into 600R. The actual noise from a dynamic mic is substantially due just to the thermal noise of the resistance of the coil (not the impedance). Unfortunately, comparing the -130dBu with -55dB/Pa is a bit like comparing apples with boomerangs. Out of curiosity I had a (quick) look at some low noise transistors and found that at least some JFETs do now claim similar noise voltage performance to BJTs, so maybe my scepticism about JFETs may be out of date, though the comparisons are also not simple. Either way, both BJTs and JFETs are not so far removed from the room-temperature thermal noise of a low-value resistor, so close to the limits of physics. Hmmm ... I guess that will go straight over the head of more than a few. Ho Hum.
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yep nothing is simple.
I understand some jfets now have less than 1nv root hz.
but im not a authority on jfets of course.
for more info on the fethead i like the julian krause vids on all manner of devices for recording including interfaces....he is thourough in his testing.
he hasnt put me wrong yet mate....he does a vid on testing the fethead.
merry x.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Since we’re getting more into specifics, let me explain why I use one. Two reasons: first, I use a ribbon mic from Royer to record my horns and the gain from them is normally lower. Second, I have quite a long cable run between the room where I record and room with my DAW.
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Since we’re getting more into specifics, let me explain why I use one. Two reasons: first, I use a ribbon mic from Royer to record my horns and the gain from them is normally lower. Second, I have quite a long cable run between the room where I record and room with my DAW. Both good reasons and thanks for explaining. Edit: Not that you needed to explain, but I was curious. Yes, ribbon mics are another issue altogether. Some preamps for them use multiple amplifiers in parallel to reduce the input resistance and thence the noise, and also to do a trick with the summing. All wanted signals are in phase, but noise from each amplifier is random, giving around a 3dB signal to noise improvement every time one doubles the number of amplifiers. With long cables, the 'other' noise issue of 50Hz/60Hz also comes into play. It may no longer be just the hiss. JOM ... the JFETs I found with my quick look were 1.2nV per root Hertz, matching your numbers closely. That's "typical" of course. BJTs can be slightly lower, but there's now next to nothing in it. I'm not so sure from memory how well the fA per root Hertz figure affects things in real circuits. Around 40 years ago I built a preamp with a JFET input and just about everyone told me I was silly to do so because BJTs were quieter. I replied then that my main noise issue was being about 1 mile line-of-sight from a 10MW TV transmitter. His wasn't the problem, the frame-rate signal was. BJTs rectified the signal and injected the hum. JFETs didn't.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 12/19/23 10:13 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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... Hmmm ... I guess that will go straight over the head of more than a few. If it makes you smile; I felt my hair move faintly as it went over mine .. To me if it sounds better it IS better My last couple interfaces have seemed to be fine for me, but I don't have any ribbon mics When I needed a boost in the past, the venerable Studio Projects VTB1 was fine .. but that's just me Impedance adjustment and additive tube effect worked a treat at times on various instruments (mic, DI insert, etc)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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FWIW, I once had a Hi-Fi store demonstration have me doubting my assertion that cables cannot be directional, until I realised that their own bias was causing them to turn the volume slightly higher for the "correct direction". I've been to that store! They claim that electrons move faster in the more expensive cable, which gives better sound.
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... Hmmm ... I guess that will go straight over the head of more than a few. If it makes you smile; I felt my hair move faintly as it went over mine .. To me if it sounds better it IS better Not everyone has the luxury of feeling their hair move  Sounding better to you is all that really matters, other perhaps than cost. I've been to that store! They claim that electrons move faster in the more expensive cable, which gives better sound. Higher quality cable can be better, particularly with microphone cables and speaker cables, but "faster electrons" is definitely pure hokum. In the case of microphone cables it's usually better screening, tighter twist and less microphony, in speaker cable it's lower impedance, i.e. mostly thicker. Gold flashed/plated connector contacts are sensible. Beyond those things it's pretty much all hype. Hmm, the speaker cables to my Tannoys are transmission-line cable, which might have a benefit in controlling parasitic capacitance and inductance. They weren't totally crazy money. The fact that they're about 6mm^2 is probably more important.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I've been using focusrite interfaces which are well known for their strong and crystal clean preamps. I've used both condenser and dynamic mics ( Rode NT2A & SM-58) without any problems.
I had actually thought a couple of times about getting a preamp. Not so much for the gain, because most of the time I'm easily in the 50% to 60% gain range, but more for the color that certain preamps are known for. Some tend to have a warmer sound or a more rounded and smooth frequency response in certain parts of their upper ranges. Knowing that the cheaper ones tend to be.... Let's say, not quite so good, I've avoided the temptation to buy a pre. The better ones are north of my discretionary budget limits and I don't know, based on my mixing skill level, whether the subtle differences from the preamp would be noticeable to the average listener and thereby worth the outlay of hundreds of dollars.
It's possible now to use a saturation plug to add color to the mic's output. With several to choose from, it's easy enough to use one. Yeah it's not a $1000 preamp with a signature coloration, but for me..... It works well enough. And nobody is complaining about that specific issue.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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But JOM seemed to like them.
Matt seemed to like them,
Mike seemed to think they had benefits, though mostly the variable impedance ones. (I wonder which method they use to do that). The same method I explained on how to build your own. We can do a separate thread on that. FWIW, I once had a Hi-Fi store demonstration have me doubting my assertion that cables cannot be directional, until I realised that their own bias was causing them to turn the volume slightly higher for the "correct direction". I loooove the mystic mumbo-jumbo surrounding cables. The PT Barnum effect is strong in that market. Have you read "Speaker Wire A History" by Roger Russell, the former Director of Acoustic Research for McIntosh Labs on that nonsense? There are a number of links but a straight through read is most educational. I'm surprised the industry let him live after writing that. As an aside, I use star-quad mic and connecting cable in my studio. It's smack-dab in the middle of the Silicon Valley and EMF & other interference is quite strong around here. Star-quad is about -20dB quieter where I am than standard balanced cable. This is one of those situations where, if you can't hear a difference, there is none but where I am, it's quite noticeable. I use SESCOM Canare Star-quad Custom Cables from Markertek. A 25' cable in any of eight colors costs $25 — that's less than name brand cables at Guitar Center et all. I just love reading how a $89 Mogami oxygen free cable sounds different — even if we mortals can't hear and instruments can't sense the difference. (SESCOM will use Mogami star-quad on request but it's fragile and they don't recommend lengths over 6').
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Using a cloud lifter or other inline boost is doable but it's rare to find an interface these days that doesn't have sufficient preamp gain. The price of a good inline boost is comparable with a decent, albeit not big brand, interface like the very cheap and reasonable specs of the Behringer UMC202 for example, (65 quid at Andertons) while the Cloud Microphones Cloudlifter CL-1 Single Channel Powered Microphone Preamp is 175 quid at the same store. On a bulk buy you could get three interfaces for the price of one inline pre. The value of an inline pre is well assessed by Julian Krauss: and If you REALLY love the sound of your low sensitivity microphone then I can understand the desire to add the inline but why not address the real problem by getting a better interface? Naturally people's experience, equipment, understanding, taste, objectivity and hearing will vary.
Last edited by rayc; 12/28/23 02:23 AM.
Cheers
rayc
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Mike seemed to think they had benefits, though mostly the variable impedance ones. (I wonder which method they use to do that). The same method I explained on how to build your own. We can do a separate thread on that. I presume that means a resistance straight across the signal as mentioned in the article to which you'd linked. That may raise the noise level a bit, but it should be a fairly small increase, presuming a decent resistor type. The mic's impedance should help keep the effect low and a plain old resistor is nicely predictable. FWIW, personally I think I'd go for a fixed resistor inside an inline connector if using that method, variable resistors being a bit of a microphony risk. If the loading resolves the smoothness issues of the mic, though, then the preamp itself would appear redundant. Those Sescom cables seem pretty good value for star quad, though not quite so good after I realised the length was feet not metres .
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
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all.
interestingly enough one of the reasons i got a fethead was not just positives i had heard about it but also krauses positive review.
and im not disappointed.
fyi its interesting that more dynamic mics are getting built in boosters.eg the shure sm 7b...im sure we will see more of this.
also fyi ive suggested to a couple of usb interface companies it might be usefull to include variable impedence mic inputs.
the only device ive seen for var impedence is the art rp1..
dunno if any good.
one thing ive often wanted to do at various times is get into recording distant nature sounds in the various countries ive lived in.
field recording can be a challenge...and im not sure if a low gain usb mic pre could handle that....i have no experience at field recording cept years back when i failed at it re noise etc.
lol...you cant get close to a pride of lions.
gordon...heres a challenge.
one of the problems with diy mic pres useing op amps is need for + -
supplies for the op amps as you know.
see if you can come up with a easy to build mic pre useing single supply op amp with low noise and high gain with xlr in for mic...
plus variable input impedence. ive never seen a schem yet...its all dual rail supplies.
happy.new year.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/28/23 06:53 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
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