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Hello all!
What exactly does BIAB consider to be a CHORUS?
I'm guessing (based on making my first 18-20 songs now) that BAIB defines a chorus as once through a given set of chord changes & not necessarily the "chorus" as opposed to the "verse" or "bridge" of a song.
MacBook Pro M3 Max Sonoma 14.1.2, BIAB Audiophile Edition 2023, Logic ProX 10.8.1, Focusrite 8PreX Interface.
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You've very close.
BIAB was developed as a way to hear songs from jazz fakebooks. We jazz players think of chorus as once through the tune. So, a chorus might be AABA form. You've probably heard a jazz player say "take a chorus" which means, take a solo over the tune.
There are a lot of folks who don't think that way, so over the decades a few things have been added to make it easier if not exactly direct. Things like the conductor, song form selecting sections, the ability to name a section. I'm sure others are more qualified to give more examples and instructions (the jazz definition works for me).
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ok Thanks Matt. Your answer is along the lines of what I was thinking.
where it came up for me was that in trying to use certain features I was getting a message something like "not available for songs with only one chorus" even though I have the full form of the song repeated several times BIAB obviously was seeing then entire song as a single chorus.
MacBook Pro M3 Max Sonoma 14.1.2, BIAB Audiophile Edition 2023, Logic ProX 10.8.1, Focusrite 8PreX Interface.
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That message appears when the rightmost number (number of choruses) is 1.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Yeah... while I retain my usage of the part names verse and chorus as well as bridge, BB doesn't use that nomenclature. Everything is a chorus to BB.
I just let it believe what it wants to believe and go about my merry way doing things the way I have always done.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Yes, but there are some adaptations you can make in BIAB. You don’t have to adopt the jazz definition.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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OK thanks to everyone for the help.
MacBook Pro M3 Max Sonoma 14.1.2, BIAB Audiophile Edition 2023, Logic ProX 10.8.1, Focusrite 8PreX Interface.
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Is it insane I'm watching this 8 years after the fact on a Friday
hussam
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Something fairly significant has been overlooked in this discussion.
No matter what jazz players might use as their vocabulary, most common songs have verses and choruses, per se, meaning that the chorus is different in dynamics than the verse or the bridge, often more busy or more energetic.
Thus if you do a part marker on something that you want to be a chorus then you would make that part marker green by clicking it once so that band in a box knows that it's a chorus and will use the chorus style of the particular style or tracks that you're using.
Those tracks will then become a little bit more energetic with more fills and more drive and that kind of thing so that everyone knows oh yeah we're in the chorus.
I agree it is kind of confusing that they would use the jazz nomenclature on "full song" repeats but I guess it's just shorthand for number of repeats or times through for most people.
I never use those "full song form" repeats as I use the song form feature to lay out the song in its entirety.
However it is important to remember that if you're writing a standard song you usually want your choruses to have a green part marker with most styles so that they actually sound like choruses.
Of course you can choose any number of different part markers and assign different styles to those but for the most part blue means verse or bridge and green means chorus.
This would be an important distinction for anyone who is learning Band in a Box for the first time.
I know this is important because I have helped people set up band in a box who are newbies and when they sent me their SGU files I noticed that the entire song was using blue part markers.
So I suspect that it's something people need to be alerted to if they've just purchased the product.
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No matter what jazz players might use as their vocabulary, most common songs have verses and choruses, per se, meaning that the chorus is different in dynamics than the verse or the bridge, often more busy or more energetic. ... though it probably is the root of much confusion as BIAB makes a kind of hybrid interpretation. I guess most here will know the following, but if it helps anyone... Although it isn't by any means a rule, a jazz song usually has a core form, often 32 measures where each of four groups of eight measures have an nominal identifier ... that AABA that Matt mentioned, though there are also other forms, of course. Sometimes there's an intro/"verse" and sometimes a tag/coda/outro. In the AABA, that B section is usually know as the "middle eight" and is often the more energetic style as David describes. The usual way a song is [Intro] AABA with the written melody, probably multiple AABAs each with an solo, a final AABA with the written melody then the tag/coda/outro. That all differs a bit from a conventional non-jazz structure, which usually has some mix of intro verses, choruses, bridge, pre-somethings. The typically simpler for of a jazz song helps with keeping track of where we are in a song whilst various people are doing solos which may vary significantly from the original melody. I really must try again with that "song form" feature.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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for my songs to avoid confusion i just set chorus to one.
then i use layers or bar lettering plus a number eg...
I for intro
V for verse
C for chorus
L for lead
K for key change
O for outtro
etc etc
So verse 3 would be V3 ...second lead break L2 sort of idea
just build your own nomenclature in layers option.
works for me.
frankly without upsetting jazzers and have then jump all over me i think its time to reassess the use of the chorus term as it often confuses new users who think in terms of intro verse chorus lead break bridge outtro whatever. i know it confused me years ago ...when i started with bb.
so i worked out my own nomenclature for different parts of a song.
now that we have the fab new bb tracks view i feel a special track called song sections should be made under the time ruler where people enter names for different song sections eg...verse one or chorus 3 or whatever. see my wishlists sometime to save retyping....where i mention other unique tracks be added to bb like tempo and special drum tracks etc and lyrics track etc ...
ps i dont like how rb does markers cos of time involved in the markers dialog.
with a song sections or markers unique track under the time line...just type in directly on the track intro or verse or chorus wnatever.
happiness.
om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/20/24 07:44 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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frankly without upsetting jazzers and have then jump all over me i think its time to reassess the use of the chorus term as it often confuses new users who think in terms of intro verse chorus lead break bridge outtro whatever. i know it confused me years ago ...when i started with bb. As a jazzer, personally I agree. I think the term "chorus" as jazz people use it is different from most other peoples and, yes, causes confusion. But I'm not sure what other term one would use. Suggestions? "Song" doesn't seem right because the Intro & outro are part of the song. "Song body"? A bit clumsy. "Body"? Maybe.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon.
thats the reason i suggested a freeform special section names track under timeline like one long layer a muso types directly into.
eg fab take five...
..drum intro 4 bars
..piano 4 bars
..sax 8 bars
..sax freeform scat xx bars..
..piano scat xx bars
..staccato piano xx bars
..drum solo xx bars
..return to sax theme xx bars...
etc etc
just an idea for a freeform adaptable special track that caters to all music genres and needs.
happiness.
om
ps.. im watching an old you tube black n white extended version vid of t5...
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/21/24 06:47 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Gordon.
thats the reason i suggested a freeform special section names track under timeline like one long layer a muso types directly into.
eg fab take five...
..drum intro 4 bars
..piano 4 bars
..sax 8 bars
..sax freeform scat xx bars..
..piano scat xx bars
..staccato piano xx bars
..drum solo xx bars
..return to sax theme xx bars...
etc etc
just an idea for a freeform adaptable special track that caters to all music genres and needs.
happiness.
om
ps.. im watching an old you tube black n white extended version vid of t5... I'm perfectly happy with your suggestion and method of doing things, but it doesn't cover the common jazz setup of intro, x-times through the chorus/body, outro, which is what the "choruses x N" covers. Jazz people really rather want that x N.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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gordon.
just keep the x N option for jazzers....and freeform sections track under timeline would reflect that....?
question ...from some friends of mine in the past who were jazzers there are often slight variations in different choruses so the sections track could reflect this ?
eg in chorus 3 the piano diverts from the usual or the commercial version eg the blacknwhite vid and thus the sections track the music director or song creator could enter 'piano scat ' ?
thus gordon the sections track could also be used for production notes ?
i use layers currently for this as in 'silent piano for 8 bars note to myself to remind me when laying out a song...ie the sections track is an expansion
of the layers concept ?
just an idea.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/22/24 04:14 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Something fairly significant has been overlooked in this discussion... Everything I would have said was said by David in this post. I picked up BiaB MANY years ago because of the jazz facility, but it's time to adapt old conventions to popular music. No offense intended.
DC Ron
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Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Something fairly significant has been overlooked in this discussion... Everything I would have said was said by David in this post. I picked up BiaB MANY years ago because of the jazz facility, but it's time to adapt old conventions to popular music. No offense intended. None taken by me, at least. The "problem" is simply the two different interpretations of the word "chorus". Perhaps we need a different word, probably for we jazzers. I doubt it'll stop us using the word chorus, but we're already very familiar with the two meanings, so I personally can't see an issue, just a need for a suitable term. YMMV.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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................................................
The "problem" is simply the two different interpretations of the word "chorus".
Perhaps we need a different word, probably for we jazzers. I doubt it'll stop us using the word chorus, but we're already very familiar with the two meanings, so I personally can't see an issue, just a need for a suitable term. YMMV. We don't need a different word IMHO. I believe all musicians can learn the different between the two definitions of the word chorus. After all in the English language there are many confusing terms, like to, too, and two, their and there, who and whom (the hardest one) etc. YMMV
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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We don't need a different word IMHO. I believe all musicians can learn the different between the two definitions of the word chorus. After all in the English language there are many confusing terms, like to, too, and two, their and there, who and whom (the hardest one) etc. YMMV My initial post on this thread was simply trying to explain in more detail how the jazz use of "chorus" in a song structure differs from most other uses of "chorus" in a song structure. I then seem to have allowed myself to be dragged into a discussion of pros, cons and alternatives. There are also other uses of the word.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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We don't need a different word IMHO. I believe all musicians can learn the different between the two definitions of the word chorus. After all in the English language there are many confusing terms, like to, too, and two, their and there, who and whom (the hardest one) etc. YMMV My initial post on this thread was simply trying to explain in more detail how the jazz use of "chorus" in a song structure differs from most other uses of "chorus" in a song structure. I then seem to have allowed myself to be dragged into a discussion of pros, cons and alternatives. There are also other uses of the word. I feel your pain as I have been dragged into conversations where I should have just kept my big mouth shut! I do know that they only definition of the word chorus that matters is that a chorus is a group of people singing together. Wait, or is that a choir? Now my head hurts 
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
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Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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