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Hello all!
What exactly does BIAB consider to be a CHORUS?
I'm guessing (based on making my first 18-20 songs now) that BAIB defines a chorus as once through a given set of chord changes & not necessarily the "chorus" as opposed to the "verse" or "bridge" of a song.
MacBook Pro M3 Max Sonoma 14.1.2, BIAB Audiophile Edition 2023, Logic ProX 10.8.1, Focusrite 8PreX Interface.
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You've very close.
BIAB was developed as a way to hear songs from jazz fakebooks. We jazz players think of chorus as once through the tune. So, a chorus might be AABA form. You've probably heard a jazz player say "take a chorus" which means, take a solo over the tune.
There are a lot of folks who don't think that way, so over the decades a few things have been added to make it easier if not exactly direct. Things like the conductor, song form selecting sections, the ability to name a section. I'm sure others are more qualified to give more examples and instructions (the jazz definition works for me).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ok Thanks Matt. Your answer is along the lines of what I was thinking.
where it came up for me was that in trying to use certain features I was getting a message something like "not available for songs with only one chorus" even though I have the full form of the song repeated several times BIAB obviously was seeing then entire song as a single chorus.
MacBook Pro M3 Max Sonoma 14.1.2, BIAB Audiophile Edition 2023, Logic ProX 10.8.1, Focusrite 8PreX Interface.
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That message appears when the rightmost number (number of choruses) is 1.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Yeah... while I retain my usage of the part names verse and chorus as well as bridge, BB doesn't use that nomenclature. Everything is a chorus to BB.
I just let it believe what it wants to believe and go about my merry way doing things the way I have always done.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Yes, but there are some adaptations you can make in BIAB. You don’t have to adopt the jazz definition.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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OK thanks to everyone for the help.
MacBook Pro M3 Max Sonoma 14.1.2, BIAB Audiophile Edition 2023, Logic ProX 10.8.1, Focusrite 8PreX Interface.
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Is it insane I'm watching this 8 years after the fact on a Friday
hussam
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Something fairly significant has been overlooked in this discussion.
No matter what jazz players might use as their vocabulary, most common songs have verses and choruses, per se, meaning that the chorus is different in dynamics than the verse or the bridge, often more busy or more energetic.
Thus if you do a part marker on something that you want to be a chorus then you would make that part marker green by clicking it once so that band in a box knows that it's a chorus and will use the chorus style of the particular style or tracks that you're using.
Those tracks will then become a little bit more energetic with more fills and more drive and that kind of thing so that everyone knows oh yeah we're in the chorus.
I agree it is kind of confusing that they would use the jazz nomenclature on "full song" repeats but I guess it's just shorthand for number of repeats or times through for most people.
I never use those "full song form" repeats as I use the song form feature to lay out the song in its entirety.
However it is important to remember that if you're writing a standard song you usually want your choruses to have a green part marker with most styles so that they actually sound like choruses.
Of course you can choose any number of different part markers and assign different styles to those but for the most part blue means verse or bridge and green means chorus.
This would be an important distinction for anyone who is learning Band in a Box for the first time.
I know this is important because I have helped people set up band in a box who are newbies and when they sent me their SGU files I noticed that the entire song was using blue part markers.
So I suspect that it's something people need to be alerted to if they've just purchased the product.
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No matter what jazz players might use as their vocabulary, most common songs have verses and choruses, per se, meaning that the chorus is different in dynamics than the verse or the bridge, often more busy or more energetic. ... though it probably is the root of much confusion as BIAB makes a kind of hybrid interpretation. I guess most here will know the following, but if it helps anyone... Although it isn't by any means a rule, a jazz song usually has a core form, often 32 measures where each of four groups of eight measures have an nominal identifier ... that AABA that Matt mentioned, though there are also other forms, of course. Sometimes there's an intro/"verse" and sometimes a tag/coda/outro. In the AABA, that B section is usually know as the "middle eight" and is often the more energetic style as David describes. The usual way a song is [Intro] AABA with the written melody, probably multiple AABAs each with an solo, a final AABA with the written melody then the tag/coda/outro. That all differs a bit from a conventional non-jazz structure, which usually has some mix of intro verses, choruses, bridge, pre-somethings. The typically simpler for of a jazz song helps with keeping track of where we are in a song whilst various people are doing solos which may vary significantly from the original melody. I really must try again with that "song form" feature.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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for my songs to avoid confusion i just set chorus to one.
then i use layers or bar lettering plus a number eg...
I for intro
V for verse
C for chorus
L for lead
K for key change
O for outtro
etc etc
So verse 3 would be V3 ...second lead break L2 sort of idea
just build your own nomenclature in layers option.
works for me.
frankly without upsetting jazzers and have then jump all over me i think its time to reassess the use of the chorus term as it often confuses new users who think in terms of intro verse chorus lead break bridge outtro whatever. i know it confused me years ago ...when i started with bb.
so i worked out my own nomenclature for different parts of a song.
now that we have the fab new bb tracks view i feel a special track called song sections should be made under the time ruler where people enter names for different song sections eg...verse one or chorus 3 or whatever. see my wishlists sometime to save retyping....where i mention other unique tracks be added to bb like tempo and special drum tracks etc and lyrics track etc ...
ps i dont like how rb does markers cos of time involved in the markers dialog.
with a song sections or markers unique track under the time line...just type in directly on the track intro or verse or chorus wnatever.
happiness.
om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/20/24 06:44 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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frankly without upsetting jazzers and have then jump all over me i think its time to reassess the use of the chorus term as it often confuses new users who think in terms of intro verse chorus lead break bridge outtro whatever. i know it confused me years ago ...when i started with bb. As a jazzer, personally I agree. I think the term "chorus" as jazz people use it is different from most other peoples and, yes, causes confusion. But I'm not sure what other term one would use. Suggestions? "Song" doesn't seem right because the Intro & outro are part of the song. "Song body"? A bit clumsy. "Body"? Maybe.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon.
thats the reason i suggested a freeform special section names track under timeline like one long layer a muso types directly into.
eg fab take five...
..drum intro 4 bars
..piano 4 bars
..sax 8 bars
..sax freeform scat xx bars..
..piano scat xx bars
..staccato piano xx bars
..drum solo xx bars
..return to sax theme xx bars...
etc etc
just an idea for a freeform adaptable special track that caters to all music genres and needs.
happiness.
om
ps.. im watching an old you tube black n white extended version vid of t5...
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/21/24 05:47 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Gordon.
thats the reason i suggested a freeform special section names track under timeline like one long layer a muso types directly into.
eg fab take five...
..drum intro 4 bars
..piano 4 bars
..sax 8 bars
..sax freeform scat xx bars..
..piano scat xx bars
..staccato piano xx bars
..drum solo xx bars
..return to sax theme xx bars...
etc etc
just an idea for a freeform adaptable special track that caters to all music genres and needs.
happiness.
om
ps.. im watching an old you tube black n white extended version vid of t5... I'm perfectly happy with your suggestion and method of doing things, but it doesn't cover the common jazz setup of intro, x-times through the chorus/body, outro, which is what the "choruses x N" covers. Jazz people really rather want that x N.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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gordon.
just keep the x N option for jazzers....and freeform sections track under timeline would reflect that....?
question ...from some friends of mine in the past who were jazzers there are often slight variations in different choruses so the sections track could reflect this ?
eg in chorus 3 the piano diverts from the usual or the commercial version eg the blacknwhite vid and thus the sections track the music director or song creator could enter 'piano scat ' ?
thus gordon the sections track could also be used for production notes ?
i use layers currently for this as in 'silent piano for 8 bars note to myself to remind me when laying out a song...ie the sections track is an expansion
of the layers concept ?
just an idea.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/22/24 03:14 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Something fairly significant has been overlooked in this discussion... Everything I would have said was said by David in this post. I picked up BiaB MANY years ago because of the jazz facility, but it's time to adapt old conventions to popular music. No offense intended.
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
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Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Something fairly significant has been overlooked in this discussion... Everything I would have said was said by David in this post. I picked up BiaB MANY years ago because of the jazz facility, but it's time to adapt old conventions to popular music. No offense intended. None taken by me, at least. The "problem" is simply the two different interpretations of the word "chorus". Perhaps we need a different word, probably for we jazzers. I doubt it'll stop us using the word chorus, but we're already very familiar with the two meanings, so I personally can't see an issue, just a need for a suitable term. YMMV.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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................................................
The "problem" is simply the two different interpretations of the word "chorus".
Perhaps we need a different word, probably for we jazzers. I doubt it'll stop us using the word chorus, but we're already very familiar with the two meanings, so I personally can't see an issue, just a need for a suitable term. YMMV. We don't need a different word IMHO. I believe all musicians can learn the different between the two definitions of the word chorus. After all in the English language there are many confusing terms, like to, too, and two, their and there, who and whom (the hardest one) etc. YMMV
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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We don't need a different word IMHO. I believe all musicians can learn the different between the two definitions of the word chorus. After all in the English language there are many confusing terms, like to, too, and two, their and there, who and whom (the hardest one) etc. YMMV My initial post on this thread was simply trying to explain in more detail how the jazz use of "chorus" in a song structure differs from most other uses of "chorus" in a song structure. I then seem to have allowed myself to be dragged into a discussion of pros, cons and alternatives. There are also other uses of the word.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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We don't need a different word IMHO. I believe all musicians can learn the different between the two definitions of the word chorus. After all in the English language there are many confusing terms, like to, too, and two, their and there, who and whom (the hardest one) etc. YMMV My initial post on this thread was simply trying to explain in more detail how the jazz use of "chorus" in a song structure differs from most other uses of "chorus" in a song structure. I then seem to have allowed myself to be dragged into a discussion of pros, cons and alternatives. There are also other uses of the word. I feel your pain as I have been dragged into conversations where I should have just kept my big mouth shut! I do know that they only definition of the word chorus that matters is that a chorus is a group of people singing together. Wait, or is that a choir? Now my head hurts 
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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