Maybe its not an either/or binary choice: Just put in preferences a checkbox to include or exclude the old pickers, so everyone is happy.
Yep. That's what several of us recommended in testing. It is more like how such improvements have been handled in the past by PG Music.
A few testers wanted to make the cold turkey change, which I respect because it would be better eventually if everyone used the same method. That will make answering questions easier. But for now, I support the option/checkbox.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Well this exactly why most negative things are said about BIAB. Because of redundancy, un needed complexity and clutter. Why? Because some people don't embrace change, threatening to stop upgrading, etc., instead of making constructive suggestions & comments. And most of us, I will stress it again: MOST of us suffer from endless bugs and unfinished features, specifically because attention is diverted from progress to keeping obsolete features, menus, buttons, functions, workflows on "life support".
Matt, Yes, having all redundant pickers hidden by default will reduce clutter, but will it reduce bugs? As code will have to be maintained. Not kept, but maintained re-tested constantly with changes & updates. Fixed. So yes, better than nothing. I guess JJJ and Audiotrack are right, about keeping them for transitional period and then bye bye.
So far there are 3 REAL reasons voiced.
1)Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront. 2) Lee- (from another post) - an option for MTP to stay on "top" 3)People get used to it - transition period.
Please, those who casts their voice "against", kindly cite specific issues, bugs or limitations that you are having with MTP Library (that are absent from legacy picker(s)) Thank you.
FWIW, I personally very much doubt that PGM will do anything about this until the 2025 version.
They will therefore have a year in which to assess user reactions to the MultiPicker, to smooth out the wrinkles, oversights and bugs. It'll give users time to learn it and get used to it. I personally hope that they will then retire and remove the various older pickers.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I use Ctrl+T for the modern compact view if I hit Ctrl+T again it goes to the old complexed cluttered view and I got to get back quickly as there is just way too much to process. The new Picker is great it just needs a few things sorted like a Rebuild RTs button so you don't have to do a MultiRebuild that take 100 secs. So I think once we get comfortable with the new Picker there would be no going back. As I have said many times you can have old versions running alongside the latest, so if you want the new content but not the new features just use an old version and you will have the old pickers.
bbw64.exe bbw64 - 1013.exe bbw64 - 927.exe
Here's over a decade's worth running, let's time travel:
I think Gordon is correct and I’m fine with that timetable. I didn’t say the old pickers had to stay forever.
No user here gets to dictate how others prefer to work nor how fast they are forced to learn a new method. And no user here gets to tell me what I consider to be REAL is not real to me.
If I were in the middle of a serious project, and it involved headaches for me to find my way around BIAB when I needed to concentrate elsewhere, I would want the option to delay adopting the new picker. In fact, that would be a good argument not to upgrade at all.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Matt, How about if we flip tables with this view: By favoring workflow of few at cost of hundreds (or more?)... What I mean is, how many people didn't upgrade because of redundant features left in place multiplied menus, strange ways of doing simple things that got them confused, etc., and they just gave up and never looked PGM direction again? To be perfectly honest, I am concerned about that group.
If you are referring to me: "No user here gets to dictate how others prefer to work nor how fast they are forced to learn a new method" That is not true. All I want from users who cast -1, to be constructive and say specifically why they disagree. So the reasons are clear and developers are not trying to catch a black cat in a dark room.
Having said that, I do agree with Gordon, JJJ, Trevor and others on transitional period. I think a year should be plenty to weight in on requests, opinions, shortcomings and bugs, but ultimately it's for PGM to decide. My "quest" if you prefer, is to bring all concerns / discussion to one place.
Consolidated MTP Library is on of the best additions/improvements to BIAB world in years. So far, relatively small points/requests were voiced... which is a good thing
I’m glad you find the timetable acceptable. We do want the same eventual goal.
I think the example in your first paragraph is not closely enough related to be justification for this proposal. I could be wrong but I suspect there is no way to prove it either way.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Matt, it's a known fact, that probably the biggest drawback of BIAB (for new users) is complexity. Much of that complexity comes from various redundant segments left in software that contribute to expansion of extra menus, semi-obsolete functions and of course bugs. PGM, it seems, leaving most of such items as a safeguard for those users that might need time to adopt, but then "adaptation" period lingers forever. I believe Peter and team done a great job of re-creating familiar way of picker operation in MTP, but leaving all other pickers indefinitely would be strange at best. Like trading a donkey for a car, but then refusing to give up donkey, buckling him on back seat to ride along, to keep company...
While PGM rarely asks for feedback, I believe this thread is optimal opportunity to discuss this among users and come to some form of general consensus, giving PGM a glimpse of specific issues customers are faced with. I feel a year should be more than enough to gather such feedback and make certain changes to MTP Library, so it becomes a central content hub, retiring obsolete items and making software more consistent...for everybody.
All the old pickers are jails, when you get use to being in a jail for a long time it can get pretty scary to get out of that jail into a free non jail environment.
Just remove it, no need to wait, the new MTP is straight forward and intuitive.
I have never seen any other software where they keep the old menues/gui after they have launched an improvement to the gui when all the old functions are available in the new gui.
If one need to get used to it more why not take some time and make a small test project and set it up with the old picker and then do exactly the same with the new picker and take some notes to remember. As long as the old picker is available there is a risk one never moves over to the new MTP.
BIAB 2026, Studio One 7 Pro, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3) Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
I have never seen any other software where they keep the old menues/gui after they have launched an improvement to the gui when all the old functions are available in the new gui.
I do worry a bit that the extent to which they do this may be an indication that they have long since lost full understanding of the program and are afraid to remove anything in case it breaks things. I hope I'm wrong, or if I'm not, that at least they're working gradually to resolve that.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I would like to keep both as it is . Eg I would miss the options in "other" from the old and much of the way it is set up. I can´t find headline filter for the versions of Xtra PAK and 2024 etc in the new "other" At times Im most interested in what is the newest.
I would like to keep both as it is . Eg I would miss the options in "other" from the old and much of the way it is set up. I can´t find headline filter for the versions of Xtra PAK and 2024 etc in the new "other" At times Im most interested in what is the newest.
Enter xtra pak in the filter string then sort by set #, see pic:
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
That is the key point it is all there. Here in lies the deeper issue. Right click on some media and up pops not the new picker, not the old picker, but some variation of a version of a picker. There is a butt load of pickers that do a variety of different thing, but all of it can be done with the new picker. We just need a detailed video to explain how!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
I don't want the cold turkey removal of the old pickers just yet, but we can hasten their demise with a detailed video Rob just requested, and then some well-timed posts in support of using the new multipicker.
I did not know there was as much inconsistency as Rob mentions.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I don't understand why my favorite "Load Demo" button is now under a boring right click. Who was this button bothering? I use it all the time, I like loading demos and arranging them, it's my thing.
Yes this favorite button was right at the bottom of the style page. And the block next to it worked perfectly, to test one style or another. Now it's over. Any listen with double click or something else, and you can no longer find your original song.
But I understand that you've never used it, that's why you've never seen it?
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