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"But you would really have to be blind not to imagine that we are necessarily going to simplify the whole thing."
Consider me blind. I see all previous pickers as absolutely unneeded complexity that will confuse most users, especially new ones and is a feature creep clutter. And not a hint from developers that these will be retired.
P.S. MoultiPass, I am not sure if you had been reading any external posts (outside PG music forum) by people that had tried BIAB. I've put in a lot of hours just reading these posts over last 5 years, of folks with very different needs/uses of the program. One of the top issues people voice is clutter and complexity.
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The reason we took the trouble to learn Biab is because there is a little something magical about this program that no other has. The criticisms about the outdated graphics and the famous learning curve are true, but don't stop me from using it every day.
So what? Destroy everything and redo a version from scratch? Are we really trying to attract more people (make more money) by satisfying fans of modern design? As the Beatles said, it's just a group of friends having a good time. I remain in this artisanal spirit, but I know that one day everything will change, perhaps for the better.
We understand of course all these people who suffer to get the nectar out of Biab, and the criticisms are at the level. I don't read them anymore, they all say the same thing, an old program for old people who are afraid of change. I don't pay attention to it anymore. The major advances of recent years suggest new possibilities.
Biab Audiophile 2025 11.28 Win
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
Destroy everything? This is not what I am saying. I am saying it is a good time and opportunity to get rid of redundant features that have no functional value. "Modern design" has nothing to do with my request. That is another topic. I don't think it is good for a software to have a paperweight features that do nothing more but add clutter and invite more bugs and other issues. I don't see anything good or positive in that philosophy.
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
... Which report ? I leave you this thread, I said what I had to say. THANKS.
Biab Audiophile 2025 11.28 Win
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There are still some things that need sorting: When I first start the MultiPicker it takes 30 secs to open. I can't see a rebuild button in the RealTracks it seems to use the Style rebuild that takes ages even if set on "Quick". How many times do you put this off until you are force to run it: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26704&filename=BB24-Style-Rebuild.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26705&filename=VST6-Style-Rebuild.png) Then after waiting 30sec you choose the Drum tab and you have to wait again: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26706&filename=BB24-Multi-Drum-Picker-Lag.png)
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Joined: Jan 2015
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Apprentice
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I vote to remove the old picker since new one has designed to work better.
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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Rustyspoon#
You have had your say, now leave it alone and let the people who know the situation, (Dr Gannon and the programmers) work out the best approach and timing, do their thing, please.
Keith
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I think it's a Ctrl+T scenario, once users get used to the new way they don't use the old anymore, but each one to his own time, they can't be pushed if not ready. I remember suggesting a multipicker years n years n years ago then Rusty also suggested this, this is a good step. I keep an old exe of different versions for support. Look at the new Tracks view, so many didn't want it to become a "DAW" but with all those Util tracks and the Track window that horse has bolted, it's a great improvement appreciated by so many users. The thing is you can still just use Audio Edit and the Piano Roll and hide the extra UTil tracks and Tracks window. Things have to move ahead, look at the BiabVST now in Reaper, instantaneous !! I had to show that working for ages with so much code, pics and videos with like near zero interest or support from most maybe due to not understanding ??? and saying that most users have old computers with old hardware so Biab has to be limited and can not progress because of this, but you can see plainly now it working in action in the BiabVST (there is still more to do like playing the track data direct in the BiabVST (so other DAWs can enjoy the speed) and have all the code in the VST that I will most likely have to now do also to show that working  as there still seems to be some resistance to that. ), you can see Riff Edit now in the Tracks window giving way more control the same as I showed in Reaper with the RT/RD sections. So much of this stuff that is now implemented I showed years n years n years ago, so it is still way behind of where it could of been by now 
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup....
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I like it as they are not hassling me LOL I remember some not wanting you in Beta because "you would want to change things" after I suggested you should be added to beta testing because of your knowledge. This is first run: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26712&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-First-Run.gif) This is once running: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26713&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-Once-Running.gif)
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Something is not right with your setup...
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 12/26/23 10:06 PM.
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup.... My vote was/is leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs. Leave them for now because removing them prematurely may make it difficult/impossible to do certain things. But ultimately, Misha is absolutely right; when you improve things you should not leave the old things in place!
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Misha, I originally was against removing the old pickers. After using the multipicker for a couple of weeks I am changing my opinion. I agree that the old pickers should be removed.
See you can teach an old dog new tricks!
Doc-take it easy John this is just a sharp scalpel. It will not cut deep so don't worry.
Me-I'm not John
Doc-I know, I am!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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To summarize, so far 3 specific reasons were mentioned against removing older pickers for now:
1) Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
2)What, if I am thinking this right, Musocity meant, is for people to get used to it.
3) And by JJJ (which I also agree on)-leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Best case scenario, if considered by PGM, this could be done in a few months until they iron out reported bugs with MTP Library. My realistic hope that it will be done in 2025 version, by the end of 2024.
I encourage anyone who will post / or cast a vote in this thread "against", please provide specific reasons why, even if they are repeats of the three mentioned above.
Thank you.
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Something is not right with your setup... What time does yours take when you first start Biab compared to already running ? (see my pics above) Have you got the RealTrack/Drums on C:\ or external USB 3 hard drive ? What version are you using (amount of RT/RDs) ? I have the USB 3 Audiophile and on first run it's taking all that time reading the Audiophile drive as it's light is flashing. It should not have to read the folders if it has already been rebuilt and has a text database.
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This is from USB spinner drive that Audiophile came with. Maybe start a thread/poll in BIAB Windows, see what others are experiencing? Mine is fast...
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Mine is also very fast 1-2 seconds.
Same test as above.
BIAB is on an internal SSD drive same as C: but separate partition.
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There is a time difference between initial open and next open due to it being loaded in memory.
There's also a huge difference if you're loading from a slower supplied hard disk or from a much faster M2 disk.
I have not benchmarked this against older pickers in the same scenario first time or on a slow disk.
By 100% agree with the OP that old methods to do the same thing should be removed. That's the definition of Bloat.
I also realized that there's a few minor tweaks to the multi picker to make it a little smoother in terms of Workflow and I'm beginning to adopt a new thought about this.
So based off of where the library is sitting and A couple of workflow scenarios there is arguments to keep both methods.
I use a method that matches with my workflow and thus totally avoid all redundancy. The custom toolbar.
In order to Sideline this debate for another day I'm beginning to believe that a very simple and quick solution that PGM could do would be to supply startup templates that match the user's needs.
NEXT PATCH RELEASE
1) Fill out the custom With the F7 multi picker which by the way is a toggle and the Track View, which is also a toggle with the Chord view, this gives an entry level person 90% of what they need.
Before they disappear and go into hibernation for the Mac version:
2) When speed and a few minor improvements to the F7 are ready then either remove or make it extremely hard to find the other pickers.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 01:20 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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MULTI PICKER LIBRARY IIMPROVEMENTS:
EASY:
1) A set of options for the multi picker
- Auto fill time signature, feel, tempo range so every time you open it up it matches your current style. (New to 2024 is the actual style options in the filters)
- Just like the DAW mode button which greatly changes the behavior and required a RED FLAG, to let you know that you are in DAW (stay on top) mode, The option to use the existing chord chart which is currently buried under the options is way too dangerous if you inadvertently are on the wrong track or don't realize that you're wiping out entire styles or entire tracks with it on. There should be a RED FLAG somewhere on the multi picker that lets you in this mode versus demo from the Internet mode perhaps just a small red button that toggles. It needs to be extremely convenient and obvious.
MORE WORK:
The multi-picker should have a background thread that loads it into memory, so the initial opening is instantaneous.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 01:34 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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The Style Picker Rebuild to Rebuild RealTracks takes 100 secs on Fast. So I added a Rebuild button in the RT picker and now it's fast again ! ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26787&filename=BB24-MultiPicker-RT-Rebuild.gif)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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