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OP
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"But you would really have to be blind not to imagine that we are necessarily going to simplify the whole thing."
Consider me blind. I see all previous pickers as absolutely unneeded complexity that will confuse most users, especially new ones and is a feature creep clutter. And not a hint from developers that these will be retired.
P.S. MoultiPass, I am not sure if you had been reading any external posts (outside PG music forum) by people that had tried BIAB. I've put in a lot of hours just reading these posts over last 5 years, of folks with very different needs/uses of the program. One of the top issues people voice is clutter and complexity.
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Expert
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Expert
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The reason we took the trouble to learn Biab is because there is a little something magical about this program that no other has. The criticisms about the outdated graphics and the famous learning curve are true, but don't stop me from using it every day.
So what? Destroy everything and redo a version from scratch? Are we really trying to attract more people (make more money) by satisfying fans of modern design? As the Beatles said, it's just a group of friends having a good time. I remain in this artisanal spirit, but I know that one day everything will change, perhaps for the better.
We understand of course all these people who suffer to get the nectar out of Biab, and the criticisms are at the level. I don't read them anymore, they all say the same thing, an old program for old people who are afraid of change. I don't pay attention to it anymore. The major advances of recent years suggest new possibilities.
Biab Audiophile 2026 12.17 Win
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
Destroy everything? This is not what I am saying. I am saying it is a good time and opportunity to get rid of redundant features that have no functional value. "Modern design" has nothing to do with my request. That is another topic. I don't think it is good for a software to have a paperweight features that do nothing more but add clutter and invite more bugs and other issues. I don't see anything good or positive in that philosophy.
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
... Which report ? I leave you this thread, I said what I had to say. THANKS.
Biab Audiophile 2026 12.17 Win
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There are still some things that need sorting: When I first start the MultiPicker it takes 30 secs to open. I can't see a rebuild button in the RealTracks it seems to use the Style rebuild that takes ages even if set on "Quick". How many times do you put this off until you are force to run it: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26704&filename=BB24-Style-Rebuild.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26705&filename=VST6-Style-Rebuild.png) Then after waiting 30sec you choose the Drum tab and you have to wait again: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26706&filename=BB24-Multi-Drum-Picker-Lag.png)
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Joined: Jan 2015
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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I vote to remove the old picker since new one has designed to work better.
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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Rustyspoon#
You have had your say, now leave it alone and let the people who know the situation, (Dr Gannon and the programmers) work out the best approach and timing, do their thing, please.
Keith
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I think it's a Ctrl+T scenario, once users get used to the new way they don't use the old anymore, but each one to his own time, they can't be pushed if not ready. I remember suggesting a multipicker years n years n years ago then Rusty also suggested this, this is a good step. I keep an old exe of different versions for support. Look at the new Tracks view, so many didn't want it to become a "DAW" but with all those Util tracks and the Track window that horse has bolted, it's a great improvement appreciated by so many users. The thing is you can still just use Audio Edit and the Piano Roll and hide the extra UTil tracks and Tracks window. Things have to move ahead, look at the BiabVST now in Reaper, instantaneous !! I had to show that working for ages with so much code, pics and videos with like near zero interest or support from most maybe due to not understanding ??? and saying that most users have old computers with old hardware so Biab has to be limited and can not progress because of this, but you can see plainly now it working in action in the BiabVST (there is still more to do like playing the track data direct in the BiabVST (so other DAWs can enjoy the speed) and have all the code in the VST that I will most likely have to now do also to show that working  as there still seems to be some resistance to that. ), you can see Riff Edit now in the Tracks window giving way more control the same as I showed in Reaper with the RT/RD sections. So much of this stuff that is now implemented I showed years n years n years ago, so it is still way behind of where it could of been by now 
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup....
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I like it as they are not hassling me LOL I remember some not wanting you in Beta because "you would want to change things" after I suggested you should be added to beta testing because of your knowledge. This is first run: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26712&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-First-Run.gif) This is once running: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26713&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-Once-Running.gif)
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Something is not right with your setup...
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 12/26/23 09:06 PM.
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup.... My vote was/is leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs. Leave them for now because removing them prematurely may make it difficult/impossible to do certain things. But ultimately, Misha is absolutely right; when you improve things you should not leave the old things in place!
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Misha, I originally was against removing the old pickers. After using the multipicker for a couple of weeks I am changing my opinion. I agree that the old pickers should be removed.
See you can teach an old dog new tricks!
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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To summarize, so far 3 specific reasons were mentioned against removing older pickers for now:
1) Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
2)What, if I am thinking this right, Musocity meant, is for people to get used to it.
3) And by JJJ (which I also agree on)-leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Best case scenario, if considered by PGM, this could be done in a few months until they iron out reported bugs with MTP Library. My realistic hope that it will be done in 2025 version, by the end of 2024.
I encourage anyone who will post / or cast a vote in this thread "against", please provide specific reasons why, even if they are repeats of the three mentioned above.
Thank you.
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Something is not right with your setup... What time does yours take when you first start Biab compared to already running ? (see my pics above) Have you got the RealTrack/Drums on C:\ or external USB 3 hard drive ? What version are you using (amount of RT/RDs) ? I have the USB 3 Audiophile and on first run it's taking all that time reading the Audiophile drive as it's light is flashing. It should not have to read the folders if it has already been rebuilt and has a text database.
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This is from USB spinner drive that Audiophile came with. Maybe start a thread/poll in BIAB Windows, see what others are experiencing? Mine is fast...
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Journeyman
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Mine is also very fast 1-2 seconds.
Same test as above.
BIAB is on an internal SSD drive same as C: but separate partition.
BIAB 2025, Studio One 7 Pro, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3)
Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
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There is a time difference between initial open and next open due to it being loaded in memory.
There's also a huge difference if you're loading from a slower supplied hard disk or from a much faster M2 disk.
I have not benchmarked this against older pickers in the same scenario first time or on a slow disk.
By 100% agree with the OP that old methods to do the same thing should be removed. That's the definition of Bloat.
I also realized that there's a few minor tweaks to the multi picker to make it a little smoother in terms of Workflow and I'm beginning to adopt a new thought about this.
So based off of where the library is sitting and A couple of workflow scenarios there is arguments to keep both methods.
I use a method that matches with my workflow and thus totally avoid all redundancy. The custom toolbar.
In order to Sideline this debate for another day I'm beginning to believe that a very simple and quick solution that PGM could do would be to supply startup templates that match the user's needs.
NEXT PATCH RELEASE
1) Fill out the custom With the F7 multi picker which by the way is a toggle and the Track View, which is also a toggle with the Chord view, this gives an entry level person 90% of what they need.
Before they disappear and go into hibernation for the Mac version:
2) When speed and a few minor improvements to the F7 are ready then either remove or make it extremely hard to find the other pickers.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 12:20 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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MULTI PICKER LIBRARY IIMPROVEMENTS:
EASY:
1) A set of options for the multi picker
- Auto fill time signature, feel, tempo range so every time you open it up it matches your current style. (New to 2024 is the actual style options in the filters)
- Just like the DAW mode button which greatly changes the behavior and required a RED FLAG, to let you know that you are in DAW (stay on top) mode, The option to use the existing chord chart which is currently buried under the options is way too dangerous if you inadvertently are on the wrong track or don't realize that you're wiping out entire styles or entire tracks with it on. There should be a RED FLAG somewhere on the multi picker that lets you in this mode versus demo from the Internet mode perhaps just a small red button that toggles. It needs to be extremely convenient and obvious.
MORE WORK:
The multi-picker should have a background thread that loads it into memory, so the initial opening is instantaneous.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 12:34 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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The Style Picker Rebuild to Rebuild RealTracks takes 100 secs on Fast. So I added a Rebuild button in the RT picker and now it's fast again ! ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26787&filename=BB24-MultiPicker-RT-Rebuild.gif)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
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