|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196 |
I was asked to write up a brief summary of my understanding of Model Playing for a guitar course I am attending. If you see anything wrong please hollar.
Modal Playing – A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery Inside an Enigma.
Different scales evoke different stories. In week 5 we learned the Major and Mixolydian shapes on the fretboard for both these scales.
The Mixolydian is made by flatting the seventh of the corresponding Major Scale. This results in different notes, but more importantly, a different interval sequence between the notes which results in different harmonized chords.
However, there are other scales (Shapes) we play on the guitar which would give us the exact same notes as A Mixolydian?
Mode Harmonized Chords Notes
D Ionian Scale I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii(dim) D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#
E Dorian Scale i, ii, III, IV, v, vi(dim), VII E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D
F# Phrygian Scale i, II, III, iv, v(dim), VI, vii F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E
G Lydian Scale I, II, iii, iv(dim), V, vi, vii G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#
A Mixolydian Scale I, ii, iii(dim), IV, v, vi, VII A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G
B Aeolian Scale i, ii(dim), III, iv, v, VI, VII B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A
C# Locrian Scale i(dim), II, iii, iv, V,VI, vii, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B
Since all these scales have the same notes, how do we say we are playing any one mode? Is it the order of the notes we play? – NO! Model playing requires selection of harmonized chords which emphasis the root (the one chord) as presented in the Backing Track!
The characters (notes) in each story (scale) have a unique relationship (interval) associated with the main character (the root). The backing track must specify, via the harmonized chords, the root which has a unique relationship (attraction) with each of the characters in the scale.
So if the backing track is A mixolydian, and you know a killer C# Aeolian lick or an F# Phrygian groove, have at it. You will still be speaking Mixolydian.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,459
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,459 |
There's a trivial typo at the end of the first line after the list of modes that a spell-checker likely won't see ... Model->Modal
I like the characters & story analogy.
I think the content is correct and a good description. I think I'd have struggled to put it that well.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196 |
Thanks for review, I will fix that typo. Here is the 12 week class I am in. We are in Week 6 now. Always fun to work with this guy. https://www.facebook.com/guitarplayback/
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,964
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,964 |
I don’t have anything to holler, and I certainly wouldn’t want to because you did a nice job. And happy birthday.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196 |
Looks like I need a better spell checker. Thanks Matt.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,804
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,804 |
Hi Dan,
That's a great summary.
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 84
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 84 |
"Model playing requires selection of harmonized chords which emphasis the root (the one chord) as presented in the Backing Track!"
Yours is an excellent and accurate summary based on my many years of misunderstanding this concept.
If you can - I would place this sentence in bold and add some more sentences and examples - this is the point I never understood. If you look at the amount of text allocated to this topic - far too much (relatively speaking) is spent on the OTHER scales that have the same notes, and this in my mind is actually deceptive. If the heart of a mode is indeed summed up in the sentence above - and I believe it is (after I've misunderstood the concept for many years), far more text and examples should expand on it.
BB/RB 2025
Windows 10
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196 |
Thanks for the feedback Joe. So something more specific in way of an example... how about this. Example 1 Dorian First we need a set of chords (i.e., a backing track) which will contains a progression which has only the notes of a specific Dorian Scale. Lets select A (R, 2, b3, 4,5, 6, b7) which includes notes: A, B, C, D, E, F#,G . We could pick the chords. Am7 (R, b3, 5, b7) containing: A, C, E and G. D7 (R, 3, 5, b7) containing: D, F#,A, C GM7 (R, 3, 5, 7) containing : G,B,D, F# C (R, 3, 5) containing : C, E, G Em (R, b3, 5) containing: E, G, B All these chords fit into our A dorian modal progression backing track since all the notes of all the chords come from the A dorian scale. All these chords have a relationship to root note A. So while each individual chord has its own Root which is home for the chord, there is a over riding pull of all these chords to A. A synergistic effect you may say to achieve a sad (due to the dorian b3 (C)), yet jazzy (due to the dorian 6th (F#)) type of feel! You can make the backing track in BIAB with the chords above and use it to play your instrument over. Or listen to anything by Carlos Santana. Or here you go... Jazz-A Dorian 105 bpm Dan
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 84
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 84 |
Yes - I think that helps a lot - in fact, I would also suggest giving several Dorian progressions and what makes them dorian, emphasizing that the chords which contain the notes that make the mode unique be emphasized more than others.
Now - do modal progressions "resolve" - I suppose they should resolve to the root - which means that usually the first or last chord of a section should be the root chord of the mode...
Is that your understanding ?
BB/RB 2025
Windows 10
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196 |
Yes - I think that helps a lot - in fact, I would also suggest giving several Dorian progressions and what makes them dorian, emphasizing that the chords which contain the notes that make the mode unique be emphasized more than others. Here in the BIAB forum, I am afraid this would be of interest to only you and I Joe. There are other places where folks need to go to get this info. Now - do modal progressions "resolve" - I suppose they should resolve to the root - which means that usually the first or last chord of a section should be the root chord of the mode... Is that your understanding ? Yes all progressions follow the same "rules" for resolution. Every progression wants to go Home (the root or 1 chord). There can be many ways to get there. But having the progession take you somewhere other than home, and leave you, is not a bad thing at all. In the case of A Dorian the Harmonized scale, in order is: 1) Amin (i) 2) Bmin (ii) 3) C Major (III) 4) D Major (IV) 5) Emin (v) 6) F#dim (vi-dim) 7) G Maj (VII) So every one knows how a I, V, vi, IV progression from the Major Scale works. Try this same progression with Dorian scale by substituting in the i, v, vi-dim, IV. disclaimer: still drinking my coffee so you may want to double check me on ALL this... 
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,196 |
This guy seems to concur with me!
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,323
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,323 |
Very Nice!! Best thing I have seen here in a while. Now with just this:
Mode Harmonized Chords Notes
D Ionian Scale I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii(dim) D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#
E Dorian Scale i, ii, III, IV, v, vi(dim), VII E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D
F# Phrygian Scale i, II, III, iv, v(dim), VI, vii F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E
G Lydian Scale I, II, iii, iv(dim), V, vi, vii G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#
A Mixolydian Scale I, ii, iii(dim), IV, v, vi, VII A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G
B Aeolian Scale i, ii(dim), III, iv, v, VI, VII B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A
C# Locrian Scale i(dim), II, iii, iv, V,VI, vii, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B
And this:
Yes all progressions follow the same "rules" for resolution. Every progression wants to go Home (the root or 1 chord). There can be many ways to get there. But having the progession take you somewhere other than home, and leave you, is not a bad thing at all. In the case of A Dorian the Harmonized scale, in order is:
1) Amin (i)
2) Bmin (ii)
3) C Major (III)
4) D Major (IV)
5) Emin (v)
6) F#dim (vi-dim)
7) G Maj (VII)
I can now write 3,000 new songs in the next week.
Conveniently, having memorized the entire fretboard, which I can both see in my mind and play with my eyes closed, I could do some back backing tracks and play these 3,000 combinations in my sleep blindfolded.
Thanks guys! I guess I can post five songs a day on the forum now like other people!
I finally found something I can use! You are my heroes!
By the way, I would not say there are only a few people on the forum who would get this. There are some people around here who can flat out tear it to pieces when they pick up their instrument. And they also hit record as well. I know because I have heard them.
Also, don’t forget that once you do all of this you also have to go into the “Zone” where it you walk right off the tight rope and begin to defy gravity itself. That is where it all goes down. That is Santana.
But the “Zone”—ah, that is a place very few people find Daniel Son.
Wax on. Wax off.
Hai!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,023
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,023 |
Great Stuff Dan, thanks for posting, I sure need to learn my modes on guitar, found this as well. https://www.jazzguitar.be/blog/guitar-modes/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,077
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,077 |
David, are you making fun of me? No he is not making fun of you. All he really said was a mode is a scale that starts and ends on a note other that a major scale's tonic note. Ducking and running for cover.
Doc-take it easy John this is just a sharp scalpel. It will not cut deep so don't worry.
Me-I'm not John
Doc-I know, I am!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,323
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,323 |
I am confused.
I do not see the "making fun of" post Mario is referring to, but I genuinely liked this thread a lot, made a document as a resource, and am using it now.
Jeez.
Never mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,077
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,077 |
Apparently Dan deleted his post.
Doc-take it easy John this is just a sharp scalpel. It will not cut deep so don't worry.
Me-I'm not John
Doc-I know, I am!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,323
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,323 |
This site might make it easier to understand, for folks that are typing stuff into BIAB, given the nature of modal scales. https://www.pianoscales.org/dorian-harmonizing.htmlSay you are trying to set up a C Dorian progression in BIAB. If you type in III if the key is set to C you will get E, not Eb, so it would actually be a III minor is you are trying to build a transposable template. I am experimenting with Eb and C minor as the key and not getting what I want. Still fiddling... This may drive people mad. However, if you just want the charts and notes above, this will explain it, and away you go. Also, remember A Dorian is "A Minor-ish" but not Not A Minor and does yield exactly the same chord progression as the A Dorian Dan referenced in his example. Look here: https://www.musictheoryforguitar.com/guitarscalesminorSimply studying the two links for these two examples gives a boatload of info of the simple but profound differences between "pop" and "jazz. Though the two "minor" modes are similar (A Dorian and A Minor), the 6th chord of the A minor Progression is F, and the Dorian 6th is F# dim. Huge difference. And therein lies the rub.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,000
Posts774,780
Members39,575
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean