I think it's vitally important to be looking at the JUCE plugin as the way forward so your eggs are not all in the one Delphi basket. The Plugin seems to have developed faster with things being added overnight on both Win Mac easier than it seems to happen with the Biab main. The PLUGIN seems to always have to wait on things to get done in BBW4 because the BB programmers are working on the Mac or Win BBW, meanwhile Adar is still waiting, he may as well being doing the whole programming that he is very good at rather than waiting on Delphi programmers. If I as someone with no programming training can do it in Reaper surely Adar C++ programmer can handle this in the PLUGIN. Let the development run parallel transferring the generate code directly in the PLUGIN gradually, there was word from the beta forum that is wasn't going to happen, I think this will be a mistake if true. If I can generate up RealDrums, UsersTracks and Loops in Reaper surely you can add this code for a start to the PLUGIN ? I have been looking into this long enough and see it could be done, I would much rather see PG go this way rather than me having to develop a 3rd party Plugin to do this or see other companies do this. I know many thing I have suggested here to PG to do have been implemented by other companies after the fact like sample sets for VST's like Session Guitars and UJAM Guitars, RealTracks Live Arranger. All the bloat you have in Biab you don't need in the PLUGIN as most can be done in the user's DAW. If users want all the functions in Biab they can use it then simply SAVE FROZEN SGU and open in the PLUGIN and have the identical thing in their DAW instantly. At the end of the day all the PLUGIN needs is the wav instructions. Get rid of all the old limitations like time signatures and 255 bar limit.
I really like the idea of integrated MTP Library in the plugin. Should be a separate post. Edit... If you going to make that post, my suggestion is so the MTP can be a "dockable/un-dackable" + re-scalable item.
It's a re-post of an old one MultiTab Picker If it can view the chord sheet at the same time and be able to select by beat for a partial regen, or down the track have an actual Track View. If they are now making the PLUGIN play the wma sections directly so all DAW's as well as Reaper will have instant Gen/Play allowing you to work in the main Biab and instantly transfer to any DAW not needing BBW4 running in the background. The Transfer Tracks button you now have in the BBW4 Style Picker they can put in the main Biab.
As the PLUGIN develops with it's own code it could be a totally separate product with crossplatform installers allowing users to install on both Win & Mac (on the same month of the year) using the same audio format as you can with Kontakt, Tootrack and others. This will build a new parallel market of DAW only users. How it works now 6 months apart is not sustainable down the track with double the cost or repeating the same work on mac compared to one crossplatform PLUGIN/PLUGIN Standalone.
<< All the bloat you have in Biab you don't need in the PLUGIN as most can be done in the user's DAW. >> This is true but there's a caveat.
<< If users want all the functions in Biab they can use it then simply SAVE FROZEN SGU and open in the PLUGIN and have the identical thing in their DAW instantly. At the end of the day all the PLUGIN needs is the wav instructions. >>
This is the caveat. I don't think the PLUGIN only needs wav instructions is correct. I'll list an example with a PG Music demo you can test.
Open the following saved file (a demo - frozen or not). On my system the demo is located at: c:\bb\Demos\RealTracks-Demos\MultiStyles\_BOSMEDL Demo
I copied it to my Desktop, opened it, generated and froze the project to confirm if a frozen SGU will make a difference. the unfrozen file doesn't open identically.
I opened it in the plug-in Standalone and it loaded. This is a MultiStyle demo with 16 substyles, seven soloist instruments and two drum styles playing in a 128 bar song.
Opening this demo in the standalone plug-in, 14 of the programmed substyle instruments and the alternate drums are ignored and do not load and play.
This seems to be by design based by what Musocity has shown with the WAV Instructions not reading the main BBW4 and bypassing the BIAB programming algorithm and yielding BBW2 tracks and not BBW4 renders. Note in the screen shot that the normal a) and b) substyles do not include a soloist. Thus, the standalone, that only displays a) and b) substyles, never plays a soloist instrument.
MultiStyle projects are complex arrangements that are user programmed to automatically generate tracks and songs based on the programming choices input by the user. The Plug-in, as explained by Musocity in his initial comment above, these features can be done in the flagship BIAB program but have been left out of the BIAB lite programs, RB and the Plug-in's. This MultiStyle demo can be duplicated using the Plug-in, but it's up to the user to decide the arrangement, instruments and compile it manually in their DAW.
When I say "At the end of the day all the PLUGIN needs is the wav instructions." that is how it needs to work so it will open a frozen SGU from Biab and be exactly the same with same sections. If I can open a frozen multistyle SGU in Reaper then the Plugin can be made to do the same thing giving the user the same as the main Biab app in their DAW.
You can see instrument changes in Reaper that you can't see in Biab:
It's the same issue with RealBand, though it loads all the frozen RealCharts but not the wav data of a frozen Biab SGU with all Utility tracks:
<< If I can open a frozen multistyle SGU in Reaper then the Plugin can be made to do the same thing giving the user the same as the main Biab app in their DAW. >>
That may be true. I don't have Reaper to test. You'll need to test with the Plug-in. There's no waveform to see because there's no waveform generated.in the plug-in and the plug-in doesn't recognize any Part Markers other than the normal blue and green a) and b) sub-styles. I don't doubt that it can be done, but I haven't been successful using the Plug-in or now, RealBand. I don't see how the WAV instructions will read the additional Part Markers if the Plug-in and RealBand isn't reading them. Is that possible?
In your first image in Reaper, it also looks like it rendered the 2nd drum pattern when the trumpet part comes in. That's awesome. Since the discussion was on the Plug-in I didn't test with RealBand. So now I have. I loaded the MultiStyle Demo and posted a screen shot. RealBand did not generate the Multi-Soloists track at all. I opened the MultiStyle Demo in the Plug-in and posted a screen shot. The Plug-in did render the Strings Track that contains the multiple soloist instruments but there's no sound output. I attached a screen shot of the Plug-in's rendered Strings Track saved audio file.
I can see the rendered tracks correctly in BIAB and they render and play.
I generally try to avoid these dicussions, but when you mentioned..."The Plug-in did render the Strings Track that contains the multiple soloist instruments but there's no sound output. ", I have to point out my findings that this may be related to the BBW4 2024 as "no sound output" was a previously reported issue. The fix may be to perform a "rebuild" of the styles database or return to the BBW4 2023 which was provided as a fix. Otherwise, just too many problems with the BIAB-VSTto even attempt to have a worthy discussion.
Forget about the Plugin, it doesn't work how it is now, this is the whole reason I keep posting about a self-contained code in the Plugin giving a crossplatform Plugin/Plugin Standalone/Live Arranger.
How it is now if you have a frozen SGU it should get BBW4 to open that same file, but I think what the Plugin does it creates a Song.txt and BBInput.txt that has all the track names and chord etc... into the SavedTracks folder as you open an SGU, BBW4 then reads that txt info from the SavedTracks folder and does not open the actual frozen SGU and read the wav section data.
My head hurts from looking all into this again ! JUST PUT THE GENERATE CODE INTO THE JUCE PLUGIN, it's just one big headache that drags out over the years for way too long. Maybe it's as JJJ says: "another dead horse that is being flogged like RealBand was ???"
It's like Dan said, it could have been a glitch in the BBW program, a glitch on my system or the Plugin has that limitation. I couldn't test with Reaper and just made my comment so you could look into it. I'm sure you do have a headache. I appreciate your time and appreciate the depth you go into these ideas. I've been able to learn a lot about BIAB from studying your posts over the years.
If they had an option to File > Import Frozen SGU the Plugin could read the chords and track names into the Plugin then get BBW4 to open the same SGU file, so then BBW4 will write the frozen tracks as wav files or track section data files in SavedTracks, or the Plugin can read the SGU's frozen tracks section to track section data files, not having to run BBW4, this is how it will work if it gets the code in it and plays the files direct.
But all this they should try hard to get away from, just bite the bullet and get the code into the Plugin. You don't want how it works now dragging out for another 10 years waiting for things to be programed in BBW4 first each time, trying to get away with doing it on the cheap. In Australia when someone says "she'll be right mate" you just know it's gonna &^%#$ up !
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