I confirmed your assessment based on looking at the notation versus the chord chart. No surprizes here for me, especially since this falls into a Jazz category. The RT takes a lot of liberties. Many in this thread have acknowledged this.
If Andrew or any other PGMusic tech came right out at the beginning and said this, then I would have taken it for the answer and stopped pursuing this.
But no one did. In fact Andrew gave what he considered to be the solution. I am discovering that his solution does not actually work.
At least not for jazz RealTracks, which is the only thing I am interested in with BIAB.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
Is this chord chart from a specific song you are trying to cover in BIAB?
Yes it is from a song called "Too Late Now". I'm not trying to cover it, but rather get it close to the organ part in a Wes Montgomery recording. I'm just aiming to use it for practice.
You can hear the song if you follow this link:
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
I put a wishlist request in so when a user types in mMaj7 chord their browser will open up at this thread that they can read all through to work out how to get that chord.
I put a wishlist request in so when a user types in mMaj7 chord their browser will open up at this thread that they can read all through to work out how to get that chord.
👍
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
I have never found it difficult to get the exact chord I want, including Mmaj7, using slash/substitutions or the various techniques cited by Andrew and Matt Finley (particularly HERE.)
But now I realize you are trying to replicate an exact recorded track. May I suggest that if you’re trying to “get it close to the organ part in a Wes Montgomery recording” and you’re “just aiming to use it for practice,” then perhaps BIAB is not the best tool for this purpose?
Attempting to use BIAB to absolutely faithfully reproduce a commercial track note-for-note is like trying to drive in a nail with a screw-driver. It’s not the best tool for that. BIAB never promised to be a track duplicator, and jazz, in particular, is too complex harmonically for any RealStyle to perfectly replicate the recording of a particular artist.
I love it to make my own original arrangements. But if I ever needed to duplicate note-for-note a commercial track I would not use BIAB, but instead a DAW, sample libraries, my ears and, if necessary, some tools like Melodyne and RipX to isolate and duplicate something if I want it to be a note-perfect copy. RipX (also Spectralayers) can isolate instruments in a recording and make separate stems, and RipX can actually convert any separate instrument in a recording to MIDI, which could then trigger a sample. Melodyne can also identify the exact notes inside a chord, which is handy too.
Anyway, since you are just wanting to practice with the track, HERE (Play) is your track which I ran through RipX and told it to take out the guitar, which took less than 5 minutes. That’s what some people do to make practice recordings for any particular instrument. This would be faster and more accurate for your purposes. You can hear the guitar in a few places that the program did not catch, but that is easily edited too (but would have taken three or four more minutes and I just wanted to show how easy this is.)
Of course, if you wanted to replay the Organ, you could also do that, and there are a few tools that play a great sounding B3, even with automatic chords like BB, but the best is Toontrack Session Organ You could also use RipX or Melodyne to convert the isolated organ to MIDI and trigger it with the Toontrack sound. It is also possible to combine Rips of separate stems with a BIAB session, but this requires more tweaking to align the timing, but is reasoably easy too.
Don't get me wrong, I think BIAB is absolutely fantastic for making tracks to practice to. But in your case it seems you want very specific duplication of a track, so in this instance perhaps you could do it better, or quicker, with other tools.
In my first response above I mentioned that I reported a very specific instance of mMaj7 not playing. They fixed an index and issued a patch. Granted, this was before the existence of Natural Arrangement and other things discussed here, but it might be that simple. Report one specific documented example where it’s clearly wrong, not just a jazz interpretation, and see what happens.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Here you will hear every note that you see and only the notes specified by the chords. The only limitation is that the midi was written in BIAB so not all the extensions I wanted to add were available, but they could be added and adjusted in the DAW as needed.
This was a pleasent distraction for me. Thanks for pointing me to this oldy but goody.
Here you will hear every note that you see and only the notes specified by the chords. The only limitation is that the midi was written in BIAB so not all the extensions I wanted to add were available, but they could be added and adjusted in the DAW as needed.
This was a pleasent distraction for me. Thanks for pointing me to this oldy but goody.
Thanks Dan. Just so I understand. You recorded the song inside BIAB or with a DAW? You used an organ synth? BIAB translated what you played into midi notes? That's a cool version.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
Here you will hear every note that you see and only the notes specified by the chords. The only limitation is that the midi was written in BIAB so not all the extensions I wanted to add were available, but they could be added and adjusted in the DAW as needed.
This was a pleasent distraction for me. Thanks for pointing me to this oldy but goody.
Great ! so hopefully we will see some UserTracks, looking forward to them.
Thanks. This started in BIAB when I entered the chords that you see. The chords came from the original sheet music chart. There were a couple extensions which were not possible to enter into BIAB so these I fudged. When done in BIAB I save the "chord track" for an accurate midi arrangement of the block chords. Then I opened Reaper, inserted the BIAB-VST and within the VST opened the midi arrangement file from BIAB. Then I could drag and drop the block chord midi and the chord labels into Reaper. Finally I put in the Toontrack Session Organ VSTi to play the midi chords. So no RTs were used! No BIAB Style was used! The organ is not trying to provide a diverse rhymic performance, it is just comping the chords. This leaves lots of room for the soloist to play the melody and/or improvise.
But now I realize you are trying to replicate an exact recorded track. May I suggest that if you’re trying to “get it close to the organ part in a Wes Montgomery recording” and you’re “just aiming to use it for practice,” then perhaps BIAB is not the best tool for this purpose?
Attempting to use BIAB to absolutely faithfully reproduce a commercial track note-for-note is like trying to drive in a nail with a screw-driver. It’s not the best tool for that.
Anyway, since you are just wanting to practice with the track, HERE (Play) is your track which I ran through RipX and told it to take out the guitar, which took less than 5 minutes.
Don't get me wrong, I think BIAB is absolutely fantastic for making tracks to practice to. But in your case it seems you want very specific duplication of a track, so in this instance perhaps you could do it better, or quicker, with other tools.
Thanks Thomas for taking the time to fill me in on all of this and also for making that track. I'll need a password though before I can gain access to it.
I just quickly told Dan what the song was and what I was trying to do. I am definitely not trying to faithfully reproduce the organ in that recording, note for note!
Any organ sounding reasonably similar in tone and playing the correct chords would suffice for me. I don't think that's being too fussy.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
Thanks. This started in BIAB when I entered the chords that you see. The chords came from the original sheet music chart. There were a couple extensions which were not possible to enter into BIAB so these I fudged. When done in BIAB I save the "chord track" for an accurate midi arrangement of the block chords. Then I opened Reaper, inserted the BIAB-VST and within the VST opened the midi arrangement file from BIAB. Then I could drag and drop the block chord midi and the chord labels into Reaper. Finally I put in the Toontrack Session Organ VSTi to play the midi chords. So no RTs were used! No BIAB Style was used! The organ is not trying to provide a diverse rhymic performance, it is just comping the chords. This leaves lots of room for the soloist to play the melody and/or improvise.
This is a very typical workflow for me.
Dan
Ahhh... now I understand. Thanks for explaining it to me. There are so many different ways to skin a cat with these things. I also use Reaper as my DAW. As soon as I have a decent-sounding backing track I import the .wav files into Reaper and work from there.
A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !
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MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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