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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have Cakewalk synths and use mainly Real tracks. Does this bring anything to the table in terms of quality compared to what I already have with Cakewalk? I purchased the latest 2010.5 upgrade on a hard drive but didn't notice it anywhere.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There is a Forte Wavetable dxi packaged with BIAB is mainly for 64 bit Windows users. The also included Roland VSC/dxi does not work on 64 bit - thus the Forte inclusion. The quality is about the same as the Windows midi sounds, pretty lame. The Coyote Forte dxi sold by BIAB is pretty good if you want to check it out.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I have Cakewalk synths and use mainly Real tracks. Does this bring anything to the table in terms of quality compared to what I already have with Cakewalk? I purchased the latest 2010.5 upgrade on a hard drive but didn't notice it anywhere.
Probably not. Most Cakewalk products include the TTS-1 synth and that's better than the wavetable. All that wavetable is btw is a program that uses your onboard soundchip as a DXi. The sound quality is still your el cheapo motherboard's sound chip. The reason for having it is when using Win 7 64 bit the Roland VSC won't work so this was PG's way of including some kind of sound for Win 7 64 bit users. Just to be precise it's called the Coyote wavetable synth. The Forte DXi is a completely different synth that uses Gigasamples and sounds decent for $40. Of course neither of these sounds close to the Ketron SD2 or another high end synth but those cost way more than either free or $40.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey Guys,
Thanks for the info. I have some good hardware and software synths but I like to start with a simple midi player for a fast start with auditioning style and tracks. I currently use the TTS for getting started and then substitute later as needed. You both saved me the time of trying it out.
Thnks again.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
I have Cakewalk synths and use mainly Real tracks. Does this bring anything to the table in terms of quality compared to what I already have with Cakewalk? I purchased the latest 2010.5 upgrade on a hard drive but didn't notice it anywhere.
.......... All that wavetable is btw is a program that uses your onboard soundchip as a DXi. The sound quality is still your el cheapo motherboard's sound chip. The reason for having it is when using Win 7 64 bit the Roland VSC won't work so this was PG's way of including some kind of sound for Win 7 64 bit users. ..............
I don't think any onboard chip creates MIDI sounds in and of themselves. That would really be terrible--beeps and squeaks. All MIDI not using outboard equipment is created by softsynths (not only VST and DXi, but system softsynths as well, such as the Windows-included Microsoft Synth (also by Roland)).
The term "wavetable" just means using sampled instrument sounds. Most softsynths are "wavetable".
If the Coyote softsynth that PG Music includes is no better than the Microsoft synth that comes with Windows, I have no idea why PG Music would include it? (Have you actually tried it and compared it, and found it to be no better than...., or is that something you heard?) You write that it is included for those who use 64 bit Windows. I haven' t yet used 64 bit Windows myself, but doesn't it come with the Microsoft GS Synth, as do all other versions of Windows? If so, and the Coyote synth included with PG products is no better than the Microsoft Synth, why include it?
Comments from PG Music staff?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I haven' t yet used 64 bit Windows myself, but doesn't it come with the Microsoft GS Synth, as do all other versions of Windows? If so, and the Coyote synth included with PG products is no better than the Microsoft Synth, why include it?
Comments from PG Music staff?
You don't need any comments from the staff, they're already there in the advertising for 2010.5. You're only focusing on the sound quality, there's more to it than that. The Coyote programming turns the standard Windows wavetable into a DXi, that in turn allows it to be used as a plugin for direct rendering and more control. Can't do that with the stock wavetable.
PG was looking for something they could include at no cost for 64 bit users because Roland stopped developing the VSC DXi years ago so it's not compatible with 64 bit systems.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Most of the samplers used today are not wavetables, but are sample based. The following explains:
Wavetable synthesis is fundamentally based on periodic reproduction of an arbitrary, single-cycle waveform.[3] The distinction to other synthesis methods employing single-cycle waveforms is twofold: 1) multiple single-cycle waveforms are used while 2) one or several wave modulators control the change between those multiple waveforms or mixtures thereof. The wave modulation rate is usually significantly smaller than the sampling rate.
The particular sound associated with wavetable synthesis is unique, since only perfect harmonics are produced. Depending on the details of the actual implementation the sound also contains recognizable artefacts, especially aliasing, quantization and phase truncation noise.
Comparison with other digital synthesis techniques
Sample-based synthesis uses multiple-cycle waveforms and intricate algorithms for pitch-shifting.
LA synthesis uses short PCM samples for the attack portion of the sound and looped samples (most of them single-cycle loops) for the sustain/release portion of the sound.
Granular Synthesis uses many overlapping windowed samples. While these samples are very short, they are never periodic.
Confusion with sample-based synthesis
Starting around 1993, with the introduction of Creative Labs' Sound Blaster AWE32 and Gravis' Ultrasound cards, the term "wavetable" started to be applied as a marketing term to any sound card that used PCM samples as the basis of sound creation. However, these sound cards did not employ any form of wavetable synthesis, but rather a high-end sampler and subtractive synthesis system based on technology from the E-mu Emulator family.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for all the responses. I haven't actually tried the newly included player since my impression was that it may be on a par with Cakewalks TTS and no better in terms of quality? I have some great hardware but I like the convenience and time saved with the TTS for rendering.
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Quote:
Thanks for all the responses. I haven't actually tried the newly included player since my impression was that it may be on a par with Cakewalks TTS and no better in terms of quality? I have some great hardware but I like the convenience and time saved with the TTS for rendering.
This is purely subjective of course but the TTS-1 should sound better to you than the wavetable plus it has a complete interface offering a lot of control. How much better is the question. A lot of people here have posted that they really like it and you may as well. The VSC DXi, the TTS-1 and the Hypercanvas seem to be based on the same or certainly similar Roland soundset from the 80's with perhaps some differences in compression. None of them are going to compare to your hardware synths.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
The Coyote programming turns the standard Windows wavetable into a DXi, that in turn allows it to be used as a plugin for direct rendering and more control. Can't do that with the stock wavetable.
Bob
Bob, by "standard Windows wavetable" do you mean the "Microsoft GS Synth", created by Roland, which comes with all Windows computers? That is the only MIDI synth that is standard Windows.
Are you saying that Coyote took the Roland-Microsoft sounds and turned them into their own Coyote DXI synth? If so, I sure hope they paid licensing fees to Roland or Microsoft, or they could be sued big time. And clicking "About" in that Coyote synth, would say something about sounds license from Roland.
I'm not sure why they would do that, since they already have their own samples, from their Forte synth. Why would they buy access to the Roland-Microsoft sounds? My guess is that the "Coyote Wavetable" DXI synth (which now comes with BIAB) has either identical sounds as the Coyote Forte DXI Synth, or a more limited version of the same--perhaps less sounds, less tweaking possibilities, etc. I do not think it likely at all that Coyote took the Roland-created Microsoft GS Synth sounds, and turned them into a DXI, to include with BIAB.
And yes, it made perfect sense that I asked the PG Music staff to comment, since they licensed this from Coyote, and would know exactly what it is. I think it would be good if they explained it, rather than readers only seeing guesses such as yours, which don't make much sense.
Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison between the "Coyote Wavetable Synth" and Coyote Forte Synth", and seen if there are any differences, if you notice any real difference in sound, etc.? (It really would not make sense for anyone to purchase Forte, if they are getting the exact same synth for free with BIAB. However, it is possible that Forte includes more sounds, more tweaking possibilities, etc. It would be good if someone who really knows the differences explains them, rather than relying on guesses.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison between the "Coyote Wavetable Synth" and Coyote Forte Synth", and seen if there are any differences, if you notice any real difference in sound, etc.? (
Like night and day, you get what you pay for (free versus $40).
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The MS GS Synth loads samples into the soundcard chip set. This chipset is very small and can not hold much. The MS GS Synth sample set is about 3 megs. The Coyote WT version for use with 64 bit machines is about the same size and is also loaded into the soundcard chip. The REALCoyote Forte DXi has 171 megs of giga format samples. These do not get loaded into the soundcard chip as they are WAY too large. They get loaded into system memory and are streamed out to the sound card.
3megs 171megs you tell me what sounds better. And they are giga as well.
I do believe I have this correct if knowledge serves me.
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No comparison in the sound quality. Forte wins. I bought it, it is very convenient as a GM synth. I understand you want an 'official word' from PGMusic, but that may be a question better asked of the Coyote team, as to how the license works. If the sounds are already licensed in Windows, making use of them thru DXi may have meant no license was needed, since many programs already get to use them as a windows feature... or maybe it did require some licensing. Either way Coyote may be able to answer better; the feature in PG products may have came with no licensing requirements for them to use this plugin. I hope you see what I mean by that. FWIW Roland samples have been the basic soundset for windows for many years; I'm sure both companies have made a bit of $$ from this partnership.  As to "why include it?" - the MS wavetable, when used inside BiaB and RB (and PT) can be heard when played. It can be recorded as it plays .. but it can not do the 'render to wav' conversion. It doesn't have those capabilities to write the sound to a wav file. Seems like it should but it doesn't. The Forte DXi module allows it to do this. Another thing the MS synth can not do is be used on a track and then have audio processing effects after it; the DXi module from Coyote allows this feature also. Nice for the price.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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BTW FYI
Don't confuse the two by getting the names mixed up. They are 2 different things
1. Coyote Forte DXi =$40
2. Coyote WaveTable Synthesizer=$0
Two different names two different products similar looking interface.Same Company
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Quote:
Two different names two different products similar looking interface.Same Company
..yet a world of difference...
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
Bob, by "standard Windows wavetable" do you mean the "Microsoft GS Synth", created by Roland, which comes with all Windows computers? That is the only MIDI synth that is standard Windows.
Of course, what else are we talking about?
Quote:
Are you saying that Coyote took the Roland-Microsoft sounds and turned them into their own Coyote DXI synth? If so, I sure hope they paid licensing fees to Roland or Microsoft, or they could be sued big time.
Who cares, not our concern is it?
Quote:
I'm not sure why they would do that, since they already have their own samples, from their Forte synth. Why would they buy access to the Roland-Microsoft sounds? My guess is that the "Coyote Wavetable" DXI synth (which now comes with BIAB) has either identical sounds as the Coyote Forte DXI Synth
Wrong guess, reread the responses in this thread. Do you have any idea what "Gigasamples" are?
Quote:
And yes, it made perfect sense that I asked the PG Music staff to comment, since they licensed this from Coyote, and would know exactly what it is. I think it would be good if they explained it, rather than readers only seeing guesses such as yours, which don't make much sense.
Not guesses, facts. You're not understanding the terminology.
Quote:
Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison between the "Coyote Wavetable Synth" and Coyote Forte Synth", and seen if there are any differences, if you notice any real difference in sound, etc.? (It really would not make sense for anyone to purchase Forte, if they are getting the exact same synth for free with BIAB. However, it is possible that Forte includes more sounds, more tweaking possibilities, etc. It would be good if someone who really knows the differences explains them, rather than relying on guesses.)
Of course we've done side by side comparisons what do you think we're talking about here? You're assumptions are completely wrong, as in "IF they are getting the exact same synth for free with Biab..." It's been stated several times above, they are NOT the same. Reread the facts explained in this thread.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
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- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
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- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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