PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Drum Stems can't be heard on new song [PG: bug reported]

You're right, DrDan, it is a workaround. But I'm always up for new ways of getting the job done. It would be great if we didn't have to work outside Biab. In theory, we should be able to do all this without having to use other software. By now, after all these decades of Band-in-a-box, still having to use workarounds is crazy. But I'm glad there are Biab users out there, still pushing the limits and finding new ways around certain problems, even if they are a tad clunky & quirky. I do hope PG iron out all of the issues surrounding 'Drum Stems', because it's quite obvious that people, overwhelmingly prefer to use drum stems over loops and drum mixes.

drone13.

there are sooo many drum features to discover in pg products..
without useing other products...
..making your own drum patterns driving pg drum content and third party free drum sounds.....check out rb pattern maker.
..customise your own drum solos.
..building up your own huge drum sound custom library over time..
useing....
.....pg drum sounds youve extracted from genned tracks and content.
(i think its blinking fair that pg dont lock you out of useing their content in new ways.)
.....custom sounds of your own from household things.....eg water glasses tuned or say spoons or nature sounds..its endless.
.....check out computermusic.co.uk...for 20 quid you get over 80 free fx and synth plugins and drum plugins etc. you dont have to buy every month. i just would buy it once a year to get all the 80 freebies.
i use one of cm mag verb plugins on my lead vocs....its endless.
plus loads of samples n loops etc etc.
skys the limit without spending large on huge libs....so you can have roast beef n yorkshire lol.
(also check out all the sounds free in the beebs spitfire plugin.)

did you know you can get a drum solo from say a pg guitar rt ?
or any other pg rt ? lots of fun via tricks....no im not bonkers...lmao...its true.
just pm me for more info if you wish.

finally...and heres where you MUST be carefull not to disturb or change the pg directories....people complain they want more isolated drum stems...heres a way to do this...

VERY CAREFULLY COPY FROM THE PG CONTENT THE DRUMS WITHOUT DELETING OR MOVING ANYTHING..
ie copy to a new dir youve called 'my drum library'....mdl dir.
now in mdl play in windows the drum files and go carefully to the END OF THE DRUM FILE...and lo and behold what do we often find....ISOLATED DRUM SOUNDS...
load the pg drum file into rb and isolate and extract the drum sound or sounds from end of file...a crash or tom or fill or whatever and save in your own custom drum sounds lib your building.
tbese drum sounds can then be loaded into a free sample player plugin...found on the net...

as you can see like the famed knickerbocker glory...tres yummy...
there are a ton of ways to make it.
ps...remember there are more drum sounds in the free synthmaster and sforzando plugins in the pg content....and loops...and midi supertracks and of course playable real tracks feature now.
just experiment in realband with the things ive detailed. remember in rb you can gen audio and midi tracks...the creativity capability is infinite.

For more..read my tips in tips forum to save me typing oodles.

hth.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Do you think I could do all these cool tricks you mention in Cubase rather than Realband? I have Realband, but I've hardly used it. It's just a case of what I'm used to. I've been a Cubase user since Cubase 5 and it's now on 13. I'm still using Cubase 5 though, it's been my faithful companion in regard to music production for nearly 20 years. Yep, I'm due an update.

It's amazing how many free plugins are out there, and many are just as good and sometimes better than the paid products.

drone.

its a looong time since i used cubase.
so i cant comment much.

i assume you can drop into cubase audio and midi tracks generated by pg bb/rb. but rb and bb have lots of unique features i havent found in other daws. its not just the pg track generation features but other tricks and features.
i cant comment further...so it might be best to open up rb and read the manual to compare features with cubase.
the negative of rb is its gui...but...like the famous saying...theres lots of lovely features underneath. rb...so just read therb manual.
the tricks ive outlined are just a few of the many to discover in bb/rb.

fyi last week i tried a.very high end daw costing big...over 1000...
it looked fantastic and had its own great features...but underneath i found i would miss many rb features.

cest la vie...its like any gear...plusses and minuses.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

It's not what the DAW looks like, it's what it does that matters. I've heard a lot of good things about RealBand.

I'm going to make sure Biab 2024 is properly updated. If that doesn't help
I'm going to try uninstalling and then re-installing Biab 2024, and all the packs again. (I know, I'm probably pissing against the wind)
If the problem persists,
I'll be rolling back to Biab 2022. I never had any problems with stems while using 2022. Hopefully, it will only be a temporary move, maybe until I've upgraded my system at some point.
I'll lose out on a lot of good stuff with 2024, but at least with Biab 2022, I could happily complete a song. I thought the problem was only with a few kits but it seems to be with every kit I choose. I'm lucky to get a kick drum here and there.
I'm also guessing the problem is somewhere at my end otherwise more people would be complaining about the stems.

Thank you for trying to help, I really appreciate it😉

Don't believe that. Truth is there are so many features that few folks actually use, that it is not unusual in BIAB to have something go wrong and no one notice. I never used PGM Drum Stems, I am a EZD3 user when I need a specific drum sound. But when I tried to reproduce your issue I found I could not get a drum stem to play. Went back and reviewed some of the early PGM videos and didn't find a solultion. There is just no sound even though the mixer shows the stems are present (exactly as you reported it). Hang in there, someone will figure this out and tell us what we are doing wrong OR PGM will come along with a fix. Unfortunately, this whole senario is all too common in BIAB.

drone13 and DrDan.

re drum stems.

ok i have some interesting info for you both.

1...in realband i genned the stems of randomly chosen real drum styles.
and the drum stems genned fine including waveforms and played fine....its easier in rb as oodles of tracks.
2...so i then tried the americana one...looks like the prob is style specific.
3...in conclusion one cant say all drum stems dont work....cos the ones i tried at random all worked.

(@DrDan....post a ;pic of your drum picker settings mate and i'll have a look also post back rd styles your haveing probs with and i'll do tests and report back.)

this week i'm gonna go through every single rd style with stems and see if there any others with probs other than that one used by drone.

A BIG NOTE...in the drum picker its a tad 'fiddly'...YOU MUST get the drum picker settings CORRECT.

@ drone13...what styles do you generally create songs for ???

country mainly ?? other music genres ??
gimme a list of music genres and i'll post back the rd's that might get you excited like bubble n squeak...lol...
or cranked up like my fav... a eagle e type jag...perchance to dream if i win the lottery or my other fav...caterham...

https://www.eaglegb.com/

https://caterhamcars.com/en

dont drool...lol.

@drone13...

there are loads of free country samples if country is your genre...eg...

https://www.bigfishaudio.com/Free-Sample-Pack-Country

there are tons of free samples in lots of other genres also on the net....just google or go on you tube.
remember you can generate with pg apps an infinite number of midi drum tracks which in turn drive drum plugin samples...
its endless.

save your money on paid products and get a few nice fish n chips suppers with spotted dick with custard for dessert...lol.
ive seen the paid drum products..very nice...but they can add up to be expensive...and also i like to work fast when im in the song creation zone and pg rd's let me do that...ie gen drum tracks fast.

happiness.

om...keep rocking.

Thanks for the efforts. Here is a list of the RD and their stems I tried. None played or were evident in the Audio Tracks. I only tried one Actual Style selection shown in the picture. Hell, are you suggesting that the song style may be the source of the problem? If that is the case no wonder no one is reporting this. It would be like a needle in a haystack.

And since we are talking about workarounds. Let me suggest my goto - EZD3!

OK, I switched the Song Style and picked one of the RD stems and it worked. This is way too hit or miss. No one ever said it works with some styles but not with others! Wait this is a midi drums! Does it only work on Midi Drums?? if some one tells me this is explained in the manual, I will go away quitely.

dan.

my answers.

1...please if you could post bigger pics cos of my vision.
OR just post the names of the problem rd styles so i can test and report back if they are a prob here.
2..try this...on a problem style...tick all stems and make sure that mix is unticked then gen stems.
3..heres the ZINGER re you blokes reporting some blank tracks...
what ive found so far in some cases is that the track may look blank BUT in fact there IS audio there...but at a very low level...eg room micing....SOOOO...if you find a blank track duplicate it to bring up the level OR normalise the low level track audio and adjust volume down to taste.
4...there is nothing unusual about room mics being low in level.
i saw it studios many times depending on the song and mic distance from source and how much bleed is desired....eg in 60s couple of mics or so close on the drums and maybe one or more room mics.

anyhoo dan post back a list of rd's with stems you feel are a problem and i'll run tests. cos the yellow highlights im finding difficult to read.
ps i find drum testing in rb far easier.
typically in bb i sketch out a song often...then in rb as there are oodles
of tracks i flesh out the drum and other tracks.
(i use reaps v2 for some editing tricks....).
in summary its a question of useing the plusses of each daw app.


rock on.
ps in rb one can do all sorts of midi tricks...check out my drum and other rb tips in tips forum to save me retyping mate.

@drone13...
instead of dropbox could you post your problem sgu to somewhere i dont have to set up an account and ill test out your sgu in detail.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Thanks, but no thanks. I get no joy trouble shooting this issue in BIAB. My only intention was to assist the OP and confirm the problem, which I did. The fact that this feature works in some cases and not in others is problem enough and should be fixed by PGM. As I said, I don't use Drum Stems.

Rearding viewing the screen pics, I can suggest ...[in win 11] "To turn on Magnifier, press the Windows logo key + Plus sign (+) . To turn off Magnifier, press the Windows logo key + Esc. If you prefer using a mouse, select Start > Settings > Accessibility > Magnifier, and then turn on the Magnifier switch." I also struggle with small print.

drdan...

actually i dont know if its actually a bb problem...as i said...it might just be that the room mics are soo low that waveform isnt visible.
but im gonna test all rd stems this eeek.
maybe pg can comment about the room mics level.

note..im on this tablet not win...
so i cant use the accessibility feature of win...also my production win pc never sees the net....see my tips why.
as to commercial drum libs...yes they are nice but i find them too time consuming...

happiness.

om

i just tested a bunch more of rd with stems.
all waveforms visible and playback.
For anyone reading this...

the only reason i can see for the problem behaviour is a user has all tick boxes ticked. so possibility a settings aspect.
in all my testing so far ive ensured that all the stems boxes are ticked
and mix is unticked.

if there is a pg 'bug' if any its a lack of clarity on useage of the drum picker drum stems tick boxes feature.
here all stems get genned with waveforms.

other pg users can test if they doubt me. im happy to test any rd style with stems.

ill report further as i go thru all rd with stems in the picker.
and ill report any anomolies.
Rock on...

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Thank you for the reassurance DrDan, I do feel better knowing this problem may not be due to a problem at my end. I tend to make knee-jerk reactions when something goes wrong, like uninstalling everything 😲 and it's no fun with a product as big as Biab.

The styles I choose, well, I don't use any specific style.
No matter the style I choose, I generally change most of the instruments anyway. Most of the time I'll start with a slow country style, it's whatever I like the sound of at the time.
One thing I always go for are the Americana rd's, I love the sound of these drums, I've used them every time on the songs I did with Biab 2022 and the strange thing is, those songs play fine with Biab 2024

BTW, do you know of any styles that resemble artists like Pink Floyd? I know they've reinvented themselves over the years, I like all Floyd periods from the late 60's to the last album they did a few years back

"the only reason i can see for the problem behaviour is a user has all tick boxes ticked. so possibility a settings aspect.
in all my testing so far ive ensured that all the stems boxes are ticked
and mix is unticked."

I tried this and still have the same problem. But one thing I am sure of is that the problem is intermittent.

Sometimes only some of the drums are visible, and other times nearly all the drums are visible apart from say the Toms are missing.

I wonder if this problem is due to not installing Biab in the default location. Ney, this doesn't make sense because Biab 2022 works fine.
...
If you're using a tablet instead of a PC or Mac, magnifying should be easy, just like a smartphone.

Rototoms!
Add a little of this to your track for that cool PinkFloyd sound.

'JustanoldMuso'
Dropbox is the only one I know of, let me know where you'd like me to upload the SGU and I'll be happy to do so.

Wow! This is awesome, thanks Drdan. They sound just like the Toms from 'Time'

drone.

1..re sgu upload...a ton of free upload sites if you google.
just google free no registration needed upload site.
2..heres a suggestion...and based on my testing of various rd style stems....when you see a line waveform...solo the genned stem and youll find audio IS there...its just at a low low level....so dupe it if you want higher.
let me comment further...and its only a suspicion,....BUT... i suspect the studio recording the rd styles has mics set up so they can decide
which mics are more dominant and which mics arent depending on drum style. its just conjecture...but maybe its a decision made in the recording process.
so...the decision is made depending what each style calls for. maybe pg support can clarify why...and ive noticed on certain style the room mics are lower in level or tom bottom or snare bottom mics depending on style.
3..re magnifier...im well aware of such. I used the magnifier PLUS another external mag on dans yellow hilites and still had probs.


anyhoo...im gonna continue to go thru all rd with stems this week.
from what ive seen so far testing rd stems the perceived problems might be due to a particular mic recording level the recording engr decided on or user settings. what ive found is one has to be very carefull re drum picker settings. if i can fault pg it would be that use needs clarifying further. its fiddly.

dan...like those rotos....there are tons of freebies on the net.
drone...in realband there are various ways to trigger those on a track.
eg sample player triggered via a midi track. see my tips for more info to save me retyping....note the rb feature fill track with drum pattern feature or rb genning a midi track eg drums ....right clik over rb track
to access...and many other ways.

hth.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧