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AudioTrack #812902 06/08/24 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by BIABman
You are telling me someone might have created a sophisticated virus to target BIAB.
But not just any BIAB feature. Specifically the copying and pasting of micro-chords! LOL!!!
Hmmm, I doubt that this is what Mario was intending. I understood that he was assisting to ensure that your system doesn't have any computer virus. That's all. Nothing more than that.

Yes but I was trying to think through logically what a potential virus would/wouldn't do.

None of my dozens and dozens of apps are 'misbehaving' in any way.
Only BIAB is.

So if I do have a virus, does it make sense that it would only affect BIAB?
See where I am coming from now?


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AudioTrack #812903 06/08/24 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Note that you will have to add a main chord as well as the micro-chords, because this style consists of held vibes, starting (usually) on the first beat of the bar, with each note (usually) 4 beats in length. There appears to be no place to trigger them from micro-chords. This presumably is a designed part of the specific track RT1217.

When I add a main chord, these vibes play perfectly on the original and copied notes (unfreeze first!):

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Thanks for that info about the 'main chord'. I did originally have a 'main chord' at the start. But when the micro chords started playing back in a 'wonky' fashion I started to experiment.
I thought the transparent chord (main chord) might be the reason it wasn't working.
I soon discovered I could delete everything in the bar and then add the micro chords and have the
'main chord' disappear. I thought this was a good thing!

Anyway I put back the main chord now and this is what happened.
On the first pass the micro chords played (not the best voicings though).
But... on the second pass I got a triplet feel on the first two chords and (2) 1/16ths , 1/16th rest and 1/16th note on the second beat (three chords instead of two). So back to 'wonky' (buggy) chords.


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BIABman #812904 06/08/24 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BIABman
Did you check on bars 5, 13 and 14 about what I wrote?
Yes, I think it's related to how this particular RealTrack was recorded. The notes are quite sparse.

I listened to the soloed vibes demo in the RealTracks picker. The performer doesn't start every note on the first beat, sometimes he plays as a pickup note (like a push). This may affect the result you are hearing when you have a chord on the first beat of the bar. I also tried adding a chord on the 4th beat of the preceding bar and this improved the result somewhat. Not perfect, but perhaps an improvement.

Maybe someone from PG Music can jump in and clarify why you are having so many issues with this style? They will know exactly how the track was recorded.


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AudioTrack #812907 06/08/24 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by BIABman
Did you check on bars 5, 13 and 14 about what I wrote?
Yes, I think it's related to how this particular RealTrack was recorded. The notes are quite sparse.

I listened to the soloed vibes demo in the RealTracks picker. The performer doesn't start every note on the first beat, sometimes he plays as a pickup note (like a push). This may affect the result you are hearing when you have a chord on the first beat of the bar. I also tried adding a chord on the 4th beat of the preceding bar and this improved the result somewhat. Not perfect, but perhaps an improvement.

Maybe someone from PG Music can jump in and clarify why you are having so many issues with this style? They will know exactly how the track was recorded.

Yes I hope someone from PG Music can help out.

There are no "soloed vibes" with this Test song. It uses _SMALLHR.STY.
Did you get only Bass notes playing the 'mico chords' in bar 5?
And did you notice the micro chords played by bass only, added a 5th note when there should have been only four?

Did you get the vibes playing in bars 13 and 14?
The micro chords should have been copied there. And the 'copying' affected the G chord in bar 14 because
it doesn't sound either.


"Of note:
Bar 5 only Bass does micro! But adds a fifth note (C) !
Bars 13, 14 is where I copied micro to. There are No Vibes there now!. "


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BIABman #812908 06/08/24 09:37 PM
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Hi BIABman,

I can reproduce your issue with copying the microchords.

In your earlier post you said...
Originally Posted by BIABman
I then selected the first bar with C and hit Ctrl-C (copy).
Then I selected an empty bar and hit Ctrl-V (paste).
The C chord appeared.

By "selected", I'm guessing that you left-clicked the mouse on the C chord. This located the cursor at the C chord. Technically, this bar hasn't been "selected" because it's not blacked out at this stage. Pressing CTRL+C, in this instance, will copy the C chord in the first half of the bar. Then, when you locate the cursor somewhere else on the chordsheet, and use CTRL+V, the chord is pasted at this location (even if it's beat 3 of another bar).

When I try the above process with the microchords, clicking on the microchord (without selecting them), pressing CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V does not work.

However, if you select the whole bar as Audiotrack did by clicking on the microchords and dragging the mouse across the bar so that the bar turns black (to show that it's selected), then using CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V works fine.

Regards,
--Noel


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Noel96 #812911 06/08/24 10:50 PM
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Good point Noel, many thanks.

I was presuming that the bar(s) were selected using the standard computer method used for selecting most objects, like holding the <shift> key pressed while clicking on the required bar(s), or with the <shift> key pressed, using the keyboard cursor arrow keys to select them, then pressing Control-C to make the actual copy of the selected objects.

Perhaps BIABman was not selecting bars that way at all?


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AudioTrack #812913 06/08/24 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Good point Noel, many thanks.

I was presuming that the bar(s) were selected using the standard computer method used for selecting most objects, like holding the <shift> key pressed while clicking on the required bar(s), or with the <shift> key pressed, using the keyboard cursor arrow keys to select them, then pressing Control-C to make the actual copy of the selected objects.

Perhaps BIABman was not selecting bars that way at all?

I'm only guessing, Trev. But since I was able to reproduce BIABman's results doing it that way, it seems like a possibility.

It's interesting because selecting something by simply clicking on it is like clicking on a word in an MS Word document and to select it. This doesn't work and it's necessary to select the whole word in some way. That said, in MS Excel, the contents of a cell can be copied by simply clicking on a cell (and using CTRL+C/V). The underlying structure of the original BIAB chordsheet seems to resemble a spreadsheet's cell rather than the text in a document file. I'm guessing that the microchord addition to the chordsheet is more akin to a document overlay on the original spreadsheet-like base.


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Noel96 #812915 06/08/24 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Noel96
I'm guessing that the microchord addition to the chordsheet is more akin to a document overlay on the original spreadsheet-like base.

I think that's probably a very accurate assumption. Yes, some sort of overlay is probably in place.
Thanks for your input, as Mario and I have been trying to get this resolved for a few days now, it's really appreciated smile
Trev


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AudioTrack #812956 06/09/24 07:04 AM
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This is getting real interesting.
If I click on just the micro chords CTRL C & V doesn't' work. BUT if I highlight the entire measure CTRL C & V does work!
Would someone please verify on your machines.

PS - this illustrates how important it is to fully describe ones workflow and system specs when asking for help.


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MarioD #812959 06/09/24 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MarioD
This is getting real interesting.
If I click on just the micro chords CTRL C & V doesn't' work. BUT if I highlight the entire measure CTRL C & V does work!
Would someone please verify on your machines.

PS - this illustrates how important it is to fully describe ones workflow and system specs when asking for help.
Mario, yes, I was always highlighting the entire measure(s) with mouse select (see my animated screen captures), and presumed that the O/P was doing the same. But perhaps they did not use the same approach. I never presumed that one could successfully select half a measure with a single click. The cell doesn't even highlight the same way.


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AudioTrack #812965 06/09/24 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by MarioD
This is getting real interesting.
If I click on just the micro chords CTRL C & V doesn't' work. BUT if I highlight the entire measure CTRL C & V does work!
Would someone please verify on your machines.

PS - this illustrates how important it is to fully describe ones workflow and system specs when asking for help.
Mario, yes, I was always highlighting the entire measure(s) with mouse select (see my animated screen captures), and presumed that the O/P was doing the same. But perhaps they did not use the same approach. I never presumed that one could successfully select half a measure with a single click. The cell doesn't even highlight the same way.

I also was using the highlight the measure(s) and using the mouse technique to copy them.
I didn't think anyone would/could copy and paste a half a measure either but I thought maybe that was what he was doing. As we said without his entire workflow we are flying blind and doing things the way WE do things and not necessarily His way of doing things.


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Noel96 #812976 06/09/24 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Noel96
Hi BIABman,

I can reproduce your issue with copying the microchords.

In your earlier post you said...
Originally Posted by BIABman
I then selected the first bar with C and hit Ctrl-C (copy).
Then I selected an empty bar and hit Ctrl-V (paste).
The C chord appeared.

By "selected", I'm guessing that you left-clicked the mouse on the C chord. This located the cursor at the C chord. Technically, this bar hasn't been "selected" because it's not blacked out at this stage. Pressing CTRL+C, in this instance, will copy the C chord in the first half of the bar. Then, when you locate the cursor somewhere else on the chordsheet, and use CTRL+V, the chord is pasted at this location (even if it's beat 3 of another bar).

When I try the above process with the microchords, clicking on the microchord (without selecting them), pressing CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V does not work.

However, if you select the whole bar as Audiotrack did by clicking on the microchords and dragging the mouse across the bar so that the bar turns black (to show that it's selected), then using CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V works fine.

Regards,
--Noel

Thanks Noel, AudioTrack and Mario for staying with me on this!

We have finally solved the 'copying' problem! Almost. smile

You are correct. I wasn't selecting by making the cell look black. I was simply clicking on the cell, that's all.
I say "Almost" because why is it that when I use this method for any non-micro chord cell, I can copy and then paste a chord to another bar?
Why is BIAB fussy about this only with micro chords?

Anyway, I've learned the trick and people need to be warned about this, OR PGMusic might be able to
allow micro chords to be copied using the same method (simply clicking on a bar).

Now let's continue because we are not out of the woods yet. We just solved the copying problem.

(BTW, the copying problem was the least of all my recent concerns.)

* I need to add a little more here on the copying. Up until now I had only tried the Micro Chord menu method for copying the micro chords just a few times, without any success. I just did a few more tests now with this method and here are the results:

One more copying 'quirk'.
The micros were only copied when the cell to be copied to was hovered over/clicked on OR
when any other cell was clicked on.

Last edited by BIABman; 06/09/24 02:21 PM. Reason: additional copying quirk

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BIABman #812977 06/09/24 11:25 AM
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OK now that we've got the copying part out of the way, we still have some work to do, because there still are underlying bugs with the micro chords.

AudioTrack stated above that the 'main chord' is needed because the style I am using consists of held vibes???
He said the micro chords need to be triggered. This is news to me. Why do micro chords need to be "triggered".

If I type a C in a bar I expect to hear a C chord.
Why shouldn't I expect to hear a C and G in a bar if I type a micro chord with (C,G)?
-------------
Next test:
Bar 5 has Main chord C and micro chords (C,G)(C,G) on first two beats.
Bar 9 has just micro chords (C,G)(C,G) on first two beats.

Bar 5 plays a C chord and on top of that the Bass plays the 'micro chords' but also adds a fifth 'micro chord' after that.
Of course they aren't micro chords but rather single bass notes.

Bar 9 plays just the micro chords, but not by the Vibes!
The Bass once again plays the 'micro chords'. Single notes and also adds a fifth 'micro chord' after that!

Of course the bass should not be playing the micro chords alone and there should NOT be a fifth note played.

To me these are bugs. They are reproducible.


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BIABman #812985 06/09/24 02:28 PM
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I tried to explain that the style consists of held chords, which generally start on the first beat of the bar. Micro-chords don't necessarily start on the first beat of the bar. So if the recording doesn't have a note to play on e.g. 'the and of the first beat', because no sound has ever been recorded at that point, you won't necessarily expect to hear anything from that micro-chord position.

Remember that RealTracks are pre-recorded audio passages, not MIDI. If the performer didn't record anything on that beat position, there's nothing to play back.


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AudioTrack #812986 06/09/24 02:33 PM
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Try temporarily changing that track to a MIDI style and see if there is a difference.
Alternatively, try changing that track to some other style (not vibes) and see if there is a difference in what plays on those specific bars / beats. That might assist you to understand that if there are no notes recorded at those positions by the recording artist, then there is nothing available to play back.


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AudioTrack #812988 06/09/24 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
I tried to explain that the style consists of held chords, which generally start on the first beat of the bar. Micro-chords don't necessarily start on the first beat of the bar. So if the recording doesn't have a note to play on e.g. 'the and of the first beat', because no sound has ever been recorded at that point, you won't necessarily expect to hear anything from that micro-chord position.

Remember that RealTracks are pre-recorded audio passages, not MIDI. If the performer didn't record anything on that beat position, there's nothing to play back.

Thanks again AudioTrack.
I'm still trying to understand the basic concepts of BIAB and audio,

I listen to a style and like it. In this case it's mostly long held chords for each bar.
How do you and I know that the musician who recorded the style didn't ALSO record a bunch of other stuff during their recording session that's there to be called upon if necessary? Perhaps consisting of syncopated stuff?
Starting on beat 4 or beat 1& etc. etc. etc.?

I don't understand how you can say "Oh the micro chords can only be played IF the main chords occur here and there". That totally baffles me.
Unless someone from PG Music tells me otherwise, I'd think that a micro chord can chop up anything that the musician recorded at their session. So it can take a long held chord and chop it up into pieces.
Or are you also saying that micro chords can only be played if the musician recorded 'x' number of micro chords?
That's a heck of a lot of micro chords to record!
Every main chord they recorded and then chopped up, sliced and diced. smile


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AudioTrack #812997 06/09/24 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Try temporarily changing that track to a MIDI style and see if there is a difference.
Alternatively, try changing that track to some other style (not vibes) and see if there is a difference in what plays on those specific bars / beats. That might assist you to understand that if there are no notes recorded at those positions by the recording artist, then there is nothing available to play back.

Thanks.
The further and further I go down this rabbit hole the more complicated and weird things get.
One thing about BIAB that's a certainty.
There's never a dull moment with the program. frown

I couldn't figure out how to swap the audio parts for midi so I went for a change of style.
I swapped _SMALLHR for _SJAZZC1 and got more unexpected results.

I am working with the same chords:
Bar 5 has a 'main chord' of C plus two micro chords, (C,G) and (C,G) on beats one and two.
Bar 9 has NO 'main chord' but has two micro chords, (C,G) and (C,G) on beats one and two.

This is what I heard:
Bar 5 played the micro chords straight this time using the Electric piano and bass played them too.
Bar 9 played the micro chords straight this time using the Electric piano and bass played them too.
BUT along with this a C chord was played right after the micro chords DESPITE there being NO C CHORD
in the chart!
It did it in bar 5 and 9.
So once again unexpected results.

Not to mention the highly disturbing liberties that BIAB is taking, by ignoring the chords I typed in!
Playing a bunch of upper extensions on my F7 chord and changing one of my G chords to G7! frown


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BIABman #813006 06/09/24 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BIABman
Not to mention the highly disturbing liberties that BIAB is taking, by ignoring the chords I typed in!
Playing a bunch of upper extensions on my F7 chord and changing one of my G chords to G7! frown
About this part, take a look at the article I wrote in Tips and Tricks: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=694482#Post694482


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I don't understand how you can say "Oh the micro chords can only be played IF the main chords occur here and there". That totally baffles me.
I think that's taken a little out of context. With this Style, the vibes (generally) play on the first beat of the bar, and not on any other beat position.

Remember that this is an audio recording. If there is nothing already recorded on one of the micro-chord positions then there is no audio available to play back. But you can add a chord to the first beat of the bar and then, if there is audio available at that beat position, it can be played back.

I'm not sure how I can explain that more clearly. This is pre-recorded audio. It's not made up on the fly like MIDI. If there's no audio ever recorded on a different part of the bar, then there's nothing to play back. But for this style, there is usually audio recorded on the first beat. That's not a bug at all. If no audio was recorded at other beat positions, then how can one expect sound to be delivered?


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BIABman #813008 06/09/24 07:35 PM
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I changed the Vibes track to MIDI using the Vibes from HeldBosa.Sty

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As I expected, the micro-chords play, because this is MIDI, not a pre-recorded audio passage where no audio was originally recorded at those other beat positions.

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There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.

When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.

Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.

Holiday Weekend Hours

It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:

Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm

Regular hours
resume Tuesday, May 19th!

Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!

Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!

Don't wait - order today!

Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!

Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!

Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.

Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.

If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!

202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!

Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.

Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.

Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!

And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.

The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!

2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

  • The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
  • MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
  • Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
  • Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
  • Playable RealTracks Set 5
  • RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
  • SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
  • iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
  • Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
  • Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
  • RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
  • SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)

Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

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