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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In response to the thread "How can I tell which RealTrack sets have been installed?", I was advised to try using the Juke Box feature as a way of checking quickly that a colleague's laptop can play songs which have been arranged on my PC, which has a number of RealTracks the laptop doesn't have space for.
I chose a folder with 182 songs in it, several of which I've been working on to add instruments and styles from RealTracks, and then started the Juke Box.
The "Options for JukeBox" which I ticked in the dialog box were:
Change Melody Instrument
Auto-Choose Soloists
Change Soloist Instrument w/each chorus
(Preview) Switch to next song after 1 bar
and then I clicked "PLAY JUKE BOX".
The first seven songs were loaded, generated and played (one bar only), but the eighth was loaded by BIAB but never played.
When I eventually clicked the "X" to close BIAB, I got a message to say the program was no longer responding.
I tried the same sequence on my laptop, and on this occasion the eighth song was loaded and played before BIAB became unresponsive.
The failure of BIAB seems to have had side-effects elsewhere, in that an Open Office document opened subsequently was displayed incorrectly (lower case "s" was replaced by a newline), and when I plugged in my iPod I was told that iTunes was missing essential files and that I'd need to reinstall.
The first of these problems was solved by a reboot, but I had to reinstall iTunes to get it to work.
Each one of these songs can be played by BIAB normally without trouble, which suggests it's not a corrupt file problem.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I don't use the Juke Box, but from your statement regarding 'Real Tracks the laptop doesn't have space for', I would guess that is the root of your problem. If you have the usb (external) drive version of BIAB see if you can play the songs from there on the laptop by running BIAB from the usb drive as well. BIAB doesn't embed the RTs as far as I know, so they need to be on the computer running BIAB. As for messing up other programs, if the laptop is a bit old and the drive is getting full you might have some bad sectors and/or cross-linked sectors going on. You might try running some diagnostics on the hard drive.
Good luck.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Good suggestions there.
Also, have you downloaded and installed the latest Update for your version of BiaB?
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Okay, after grinding down to the "other" thread, I see you are using Build 304. Good.
So you've tried this on two different computers with the same result?
That has GOT to be something about one of the songfiles, but I'm not sure what it could be.
I just tried running my Jukebox here, and it purrs along through all the songs in a folder just like always. I can't stand those "could not duplicate" reports, but sometimes even that amount of information can help isolate a problem, at least you know that it is possible and not a bug in the program, perhaps.
Try this:
Remove the song that balks and perhaps each song on either side of it in that folder as well, temporarily, and see if the jukebox keeps on playing or not.
This may be a setting in the Control Panel -> Power section where the machine is set to save power by shutting things down, such as disk drive or the like. When plugged into the wall AC power and running BiaB, I set the AC settings to "Always On" to prevent that from interrupting the show.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BarryKJ: I first came across the problem on my desktop PC, which has all the RealTracks I own installed on it, along with the latest version of BIAB 2010.5 build 304.
In order to check whether it's something unique about this PC, I ran the same test on my laptop, which does have all the RealTracks I've been using so far, but doesn't have room for the 83-101 set I've just purchased. BIAB on the laptop fails at the same song in the songlist - although it does play the last song, which isn't played on my desktop.
Mac: My desktop doesn't have any power saving options set, and I've set my laptop to be "Always On", so I don't think that's the problem - this fault occurs within a few minutes of my starting the Juke Box.
I'll move a small subset of the songs into a temporary directory, and see if I can identify a faulty song.
Having said that, I believe that no program should hang or start messing around with the operating system if it is running a faulty data file - especially if the program itself created the faulty file! If I had written such a program, I'd be very keen to investigate the characteristics of a faulty file which could produce such an effect, and take steps to detect the fault before the damage could be done. This is especially true for a program like BIAB which runs "live", not in a back office somewhere. At a pragmatic level, I can always remove or rewrite a faulty file to get things moving again, but I would expect some protection from BIAB.
PS I'm really enjoying BIAB - this is not intended as destructive criticism, but as a way of improving an already very impressive product. I'd rather collaborate in investigation than walk away.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Also could be caused by a screensaver.
The thing is that BiaB, when playing back, as in using the Jukebox, does not require any user intervention such as a Mouse move or keyboard press that would reset any countdown to something like PowerSave or Screensaver in the OS. That's why we have to disable these things to use the Jukebox or other longplay features.
I also had to disable the AMD Powernow! thang. It throttles down the CPU when it detects that you aren't working. And that interrupted BiaB bigtime also, right when the next song would load. I understand that some of the Intel based boards can do something like that also.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks, Mac.
I don't think this is the issue because playing the first bar of 8 tunes takes much less time than is allowed before the screensaver on my desktop is activated, and the screensaver on my laptop is switched off.
In any case, if it's possible for a screensaver to crash BIAB there's a problem in BIAB that needs to be fixed! Unless I'm much mistaken, all that a screensaver does is to change what's displayed on the screen - any program that's running when the screensaver is activated continues to run invisibly, and its output becomes visible again when you move the mouse.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Further experiments with Juke Box.
To try to find out what's happening, I created two new folders, BIABTest and BIABTest2.
I then copied the set of files I was working on into BIABTest, rebuilt the song list, and confirmed that BIAB becomes unresponsive once it has loaded the 8th file - although this time the first bar of the song is played first, before BIAB hangs.
Next, I moved the first seven files to BIABTest2, so that the suspect file was now first to be played, and repeated the process. This time the failure occurred at the fourth file.
Again, I moved the first three files away, rebuilt the list, and tried Juke Box again - this time the failure was at the third song.
Finally, I moved the first three files away, rebuilt the list, and had another shot. Again, it was when Juke Box reached the third song that it hung.
It seems unlikely to me that each of these four song files is faulty in a way which would cause the same behaviour in BIAB, and my suspicion is that there is a memory leak - ie that Juke Box is asking for system memory for each song file it opens, and doesn't hand it back to Windows when it's finished dealing with the song.
I didn't reboot my PC between tests.
To summarise:
A. Song1 to Song7 are played satisfactorily, but the crash occurs on Song8.
B. Song1...Song7 are removed - Song8, Song9 and Song10 are played, failure occurs on Song11
C. Song8...Song10 are removed - Song11 and Song12 are played, failure occurs on Song13
D. Song11..Song12 are removed - Song13 and Song14 are played, failure occurs on Song15
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sounds like you have been doing some good trouble shooting. Is the Juke Box problem only with songs that have RealTracks or does it crash with midi files as well? Also, did you confirm that all of these songs will play fine one at a time in BIAB? Regarding memory and hardware, what amount of ram and free hard drive space do you have available on these two machines? Which OS?
I hope you can figure out the cause of your problem. I suppose it could be the Juke Box but it sounds like (from other post) that most folks don't have these issues.
Good luck and keep trying.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, the Juke Box is the only feature (so far!) that has been causing me problems of this sort. Obviously, I'm still on the learning curve as far as the use of the program itself is concerned, and it may be that It's the way I'm using it that's causing problems other people don't see.
Nonetheless, I don't think it's right that a program should crash because of an ignorant user doesn't press the buttons in the order the experienced user does - this is what beta-testing is all about isn't it?
It crashes with MIDI files as well, although I think all of the tracks I've been dealing with use RealDrums.
Both computers use Microsoft Windows XP Professional version 2002 Service Pack 3.
The Desktop has 2 GB of RAM, the laptop 1 GB.
Each had > 5 GB of disc space left when I started these tests.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It may be time to defrag the disks. Ignore that Windows comment that they don't need defragged at this time, that does not take streaming audio into account.
I doubt this is caused by the order in which you do things, although I wouldn't rule that out entirely I just don't think that is the case here.
>5gb of disk space doesn't say anything about the total disk size. Rule of thumb, I want about 15% of the drive to be empty for this kind of work. 10% anyway.
Defrag is important, remembering back to the first time I installed all the RealTracks when they first came out, I had all sorts of stuttering at playback, hangs and the like while just attempting to play songs. Didn't even get so far as the jukebox then, but a defrag cured those issues. Now, I just do the defrag after any time I install RealTracks, such as when the upgrades come out.
As for screensavers, well, it depends on the type of screensaver. The standard Windows-included screensavers seem to work fine with BiaB streaming songs, but we have indeed seen some instances of aftermarket Screensavers that also run background programs such as Antivirus programs get in the way of the needed resources. Please understand that I'm just trying to cover all possible bases in an effort to help out, experience on this forum has taught me that, indeed, just about anything may help the poster figure out their problem, you never know.
One thing that *might* get to the bottom of all this a lot quicker - PGMusic support tollfree hotline. With one of the PCs in front of you and ready to go, they may be able to pinpoint what's going on and help you solve this.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I know Mac hates it when I say this however it's working perfectly. I Juking one of the RTs Demo folders. Set up for 1 bar. I'm at about song 50 or so and still going strong.
I have had strange things happen as well that didn't happen to anyone else. Tough to find the solution but I did.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I don't "hate" it, John. There was that time during Beta testing when I actually had a problem and needed it solved. As it turned out, it WAS a problem bug, but only for people who were using hardware MIDI synths. A hard one to find since at the time the songs involved only Realtracks. But it was a very good thing that the bugt was finally recognized and got squashed, or everyone who uses a hardware MIDI synth would have been on this forum complaining of that weird timing problem.
A few people reporting that they cannot duplicate a problem is good data to have.
What I don't like is when someone who has already reported that it, "works fine for them" keeps coming back to a thread and *repeating* that.
The OP here obviously has a problem and we should all be trying to help find out the solution to that problem.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for your continuing support, everybody.
I've got my colleague to run Juke Box on our common set of files, and he reports no problem.
He runs Vista on his laptop, and has just reinstalled Windows on a replacement hard disc, after his laptop fell off his music stand.
To that extent, then, my problem is solved, as I want him to use Juke Box to ensure that we don't suffer embarrassing hiccups when we use his laptop on a gig and we come to play a song I've edited on my system (which has a bigger selection of RealTracks installed).
I still don't like having an unexplained problem, especially when it affects both of my two computers in the same way.
At the same time, I'm also looking seriously at running BIAB under Ubuntu Linux (mentioned in a separate thread). I've got a MIDI-only installation running, but haven't cracked the RealTracks yet.
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Reporting that I've cleaned out a lot of duplicate and redundant files on my desktop computer, and now have around 32GB free (about 20% of my 160GB hard disc).
As suggested, I ran defrag, but still come up against the same problem with BIAB hanging after a few songs on Juke Box.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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John, didn't you have to change the thread priority to get it working stable a while back?
May be something to try. unfortunately the only reference I see to thread usage in BiaB is the 'fast realtracks generation' feature..
Is there a place, as in RB, to try to use a discrete thread for the processor?
You could try unchecking the 'fast load audio' and 'fast realtrack generation' boxes to see if it helps...
Last edited by rharv; 08/08/10 05:57 AM.
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Make your sound your own!
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Yes in RB in order for the program to be stable I have to BOTH:
1. disable hyperthreading in the BIOS AND
2. run RB in a "Discrete Thread-normal Priority"
Mac,
I believe the only time I repeat myself is when an OP tries different things and I try those same things. If I have no issues I'll repeat "works fine here". I don't like that word "hate" either. Shouldn't have used it.
So it sounds to me like a computer specific issue or maybe a corrupt install? Sounds to me that you're duel booting XP & Linux as well. There are some issues with this that can affect Windows. Mostly noted with Ubuntu 10.04 & Win 7 but.....................
I'm a Linux user and I do believe your best to forget Wine & Biab
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I should make this Jukebox thing a priority later in the week. The wife is home weekends and it's a waste of facetime, I think we are going to the lake (Erie is a 20 minute drive).
As far as wine is concerned, um, I've used it with Band in a Box for years. A good glass of Cab-Sauv in a stem-less glass goes well.
(Hides)
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I knew someone would say that.
John how are you doing? getting your strength back?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Yes in RB in order for the program to be stable I have to BOTH:
1. disable hyperthreading in the BIOS AND
2. run RB in a "Discrete Thread-normal Priority"
Hmm. Never had any dealings with threading - another learning curve to traverse!
<snip>
Quote:
So it sounds to me like a computer specific issue or maybe a corrupt install? Sounds to me that you're duel booting XP & Linux as well. There are some issues with this that can affect Windows. Mostly noted with Ubuntu 10.04 & Win 7 but.....................
I'm a Linux user and I do believe your best to forget Wine & Biab
I think it's unlikely to be computer-specific, as it happens on both my desktop and laptop at the same point in the sequence of songs played by Juke Box.
This all happened before I tried installing Ubuntu as a dual-boot on my desktop - I'd installed Ubuntu on a redundant server I reformatted for the purpose, but the server doesn't have a sound-card.
I'm now experiencing the joys of missing codecs. Do you have a specific reason for thinking BIAB and Wine won't work together, or is this a general opinion on Wine's capabilities? If I ever make a complete transition from Windows to Linux it won't happen until I've run through a long period of dual-booting. I'm hopeful that Wine will ease the process by letting me run familiar Windows software until I've found Linux equivalents and done the file-conversions.
PS I love the idea of a duel between XP and Linux! Pistols at dawn?
PPS My colleague has just phoned to say that he's tried a number of draft files I'd been working on, adding RealTracks to previously MIDI-only songs, and that his Vista installation crashes at the same point in the Juke Box sequence as both my computers do.
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