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would anyone be kind enough and i do thank you if you choose to do so
link something done on BIAB NOT with uncompressed AIFFS ( AUDIOPHILE Pkg )
so that i can get an idea how the sound quality is?
i have read the threads but would appreciate a user who is using the ULTRAPAK with the compressed files
not the uncompressed files and publishes their work on e.g SOUNDCLOUD
thanks so much as im ready to put my money down and if there is really no significant difference I would be grateful to hear this for myself
GL
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GML.
i'm a regular upak non audiophile user.
listen to the songs in my sig below.
please use decent earbuds instead of dollar cheapies..
you can post back a song review if you wish ...be as brutal as you wish...lol.
ive had more than a few likes//bells//comments.
happiness.
om
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Whatever gets posted so a comparison can be made, must be posted on a site that does not compress the files. I thought SoundCloud does compress submissions? You said you read the threads. Did that include an article I wrote, here? https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=378939#Post378939
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I’ve purchased the audiophile version in the past. I do not anymore. I use the UltraPak For my work (performance quality backing tracks) it makes zero difference. I spent some time comparing the Ultra Pak with audiophile on everything from phones and tablets, to pa speakers to $5000/pair studio monitors. The tracks (audiophile and ultra )were basically the same with each speaker. Here’s a link to a CD i put together 4 or 5 years ago. Only the guitar is recorded audio. All the accompaniment is BIAB real tracks using ultraPak. https://on.soundcloud.com/Y52jDeJnL68HthCv9I can’t remember whether I uploaded .wav files or 320kbps MP3’s to soundcloud I have no Idea how SoundCloud processes the audio
Last edited by mrgeeze; 07/26/24 05:59 AM.
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Mrgeeze, if you update prior versions like most of us do, then whatever WAV files you have from the earlier audiophile version(s) are still there. BIAB uses WAV files first if it finds them. Your productions may contain a mix of WAV and WMA.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks Matt.
My personal audiophile version was a few years back when I ran both windows and Mac OS.
My recent testing was performed on 2 separate machines with a friend who has the audiophile version
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
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I find Mr Matt Finley's archived contribution that's linked to this post to be exceedingly useful on a practical, technical standpoint.
However, I say that I myself find myself to be highly annoyed with the question itself every time it surfaces on the forum, because as a dyed in the wool audiophile with perfect hearing and immaculate taste, I simply cannot comprehend the lack of self-respect that would come from groveling in the dirt with pigs.
Asking whether some cheap bargain basement variety of an audio file is that the same caliber as the audiophile version is like asking what is the better choice at University, Cambridge, or any good school at Oxford, or Pink Hill Community College in Redneck County?
Or what is the more suitable beverage? Real Champagne from France, or bubbling sewage water from the local tap? Or what is the better musical choice for an evening of listening? Live tickets to the London Philharmonic, or some squalid bohemian evening sitting on some vinyl couch listening to Spotify?
You shock and offend the delicate sensibilities of the true audiophile by even raising the question.
It is a horror.
Any true audiophile knows that it has nothing to do with the sound itself, and everything to do with the absolute obstinate personality that refuses to compromise its dignity and roll around on the ground with common grunts!
There! Steady on man and choose your crowd before it chooses you!!
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David, I resent being compared to pigs!
(Kidding). Thanks for the kind words about my notes.
I actually had a membership card in 1970 for some semi-official semi-pretentious Society of Audiophiles. I think I passed their written test (which says nothing about my hearing).
I wear hearing aides now to give me back some high frequency, but even without them I can hear the difference in a song prepared with WMA versus WAV files. I have even stumped several audio engineers with what I could hear.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Any true audiophile knows that it has nothing to do with the sound itself... ... It's how much you paid for the pure copper cables that connect your record player to the speakers. 
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Interesting that BIAB standard wma files (bit rate) are below where people listen these days, but the audiophile 16bit 44.1k is above where most people listen these days. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/0249qFkg/Sample-Rates-BIAB.jpg) The times they are a changing.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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What is this WMA format you speak of?
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david...
you jest sir ??....lol.
i wont take it back,
im lovin that flac.
done a ton of tracks.
man in the street cant tell the diff.
now im gonna go riff.
happiness
ps...all songs in my sig were done useing normal non audiophile upak.
ive found people like or hate a song ie normal persons in the street.
they dont care if song was done with el cheapo cables...lol.
om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/26/24 12:33 PM.
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I don't mix for the normal person on the street and I don't know any audio engineer who would. As long as there are people who do know the difference, I will mix for them.
As to that chart, I've commented on it before. Listing BIAB 'Standard' at a bit rate of 128 is, I believe, misleading. Yes, some of the WMA files are 128, some actually lower, but WMA compression of 128 sounds better than an MP3 of 128. In some rudimentary tests I did years ago when I wrote that article about the differences between the regular (standard) and audiophile versions, I thought the WMA files sounded closer to a quality comparable to 198. Perhaps others could comment.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I agree, Matt.
I find the Windows WMA files better to listen to than MP3s.
When I write my songs, I always use the 'Ultrapak' version of BIAB because it is on my computer and this is how BIAB Audiophile version installs the program.
Then, when I want to create a final production, I work with the WAV files on the USB drive.
I can hear a difference between WMA and WAV with most instruments.
Because I'm getting old now, though, my ability to hear top end frequencies is fading, these days the difference between the two file-types is less noticeable than it used to be.
I always upload the Audiophile-derived end result to Soundcloud.
The upload is then automatically compressed to 256kbs AAC (~320 kbs mp3) as high quality streaming format (as far as I understand).
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Google results have some disgruntled people complaining that SoundCloud compresses all the way to 128.
Note: the OP (who has not yet returned) didn’t specify SoundCloud; I did. My point was that to compare fairly, demos of a BIAB song must be posted somewhere they won’t be compressed (and that’s not SoundCloud).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Many moons ago, I ran extensive listening tests, comparing the different MP3 compression standards to the CDs I was ripping (44.1K/ 16 bit). I could hear slight differences between 192K .mp3 and CD .wav. Rates below 192K were obvious. 128K was terrible. 320K sounded like the CD to my ears. The only difference between 256K and 320K that I could hear was on a high-end home theater system with a really good subwoofer The 256K rips lost just a touch of really low end definition, but I really had to listen for it. On the other audio systems I tested on, the 256K rips sounded like the CD. Since there was a major file size increase between 256K and 320K, I ripped everything at 256K. With today's huge external SSDs, I'd have used 320K. But for streaming, I don't think anything over 256K would justify the increase in data.
Last edited by TheMaartian; 07/27/24 06:45 AM.
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Google results have some disgruntled people complaining that SoundCloud compresses all the way to 128. A couple of years ago that was definitely the case. Nowadays, though, it looks like things are a bit different if a user uploads using a lossless format. This is what they currently have... https://help.soundcloud.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003452847-Uploading-requirements![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28425&filename=streaming HD from lossless format.jpg)
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Many moons ago, I ran extensive listening tests, comparing the different MP3 compression standards to the CDs I was ripping (44.1K/ 16 bit). I could hear slight differences between 192K .mp3 and CD .wav. Rates below 192K were obvious. 128K was terrible. 320K sounded like the CD to my ears. The only difference between 256K and 320K that I could hear was on a high-end home theater system with a really good subwoofer The 256K rips lost just a touch of really low end definition, but I really had to listen for it. On the other audio systems I tested on, the 256K rips sounded like the CD. Since there was a major file size increase between 256K and 320K, I ripped everything at 256K. With today's huge external SSDs, I'd have used 320K. But for streaming, I don't think anything over 256K would justify the increase in data. I did similar analysis when I started ripping my 1000+ cd collection. Settled on 320kpbs mp3's for phone/pad/car/etc. I quit thinking about the cost of storage 10 years ago. Its been all SSD since then for me. When I started producing tracks for performance I created them using .wav real tracks from biab (UltraPak) into my daw (Logic). I bounced the ouput of the daw project to 320kpbs mp3's. I use those 320kbps mp3's for performance. I use IOS software (Anytune) to play my tracks, build setlists, loopsections,control playback, etc. I own a variety of sound reinforcement gear (QSC, EV, Bose, JBL, Turbosound, etc). I mostly use a modeller (HX Stomp) nowadays vice a conventional guitar amp. The only reactions I've ever gotten on my tracks is people (musicians usually) commenting on the high quality. People have offered to pay me to make tracks for them.
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Like many threads here, you probably got more than you wanted. Did we answer your question?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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