While there is a dedicated forum section for RT/Midi requests, I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss some of the particular instrumental or MIDI tracks that you feel are under-represented in BIAB. Perhaps it will give some ideas to PGM crew. Unlike Wishlist, lets try to elaborate on why you feel specific tracks are important. Especially if it's hard to substitute these with other software. I will start.
Non-soloist woodwinds (recorder / flute) rhythm parts that are suitable for genres like Pop / Pop Rock. While there are a lot of brass/wind RTs in BIAB, most are Jazz/Latin or soloist. I think simpler tracks are important because they can be used as fill ins / background for many other genres and compositions outside mainstream Pop/ Rock. Unfortunately pattern/phrase based winds that are available on the market are for either Classical or Scoring music, or their phrases do not transpose properly and have to be used "as recorded". Also, there are almost no musician played MIDI Wind loops / phrases on the whole internet.
Ska, Reggae, Punk guitars. Simply only a handful of these are in PGM catalog. They are good, but only so few of them. There are plenty of realistic strumming VSTi available. I have tried most of them. Unfortunately these particular genres sound horrible. They need to be played. The only realistic sounding ones are from NI Session Guitarist series, because they are phrase based (similar to PGM) But even if you have whole NI Guitarist catalog, there are only about 8 related sets across electric and acoustic instruments.
Think realistic sounding pushed chords are still under represented in pop/rock styles for guitars, keyboards and bass. Maybe this has changed, as I gave up on using them with BiaB many years ago. I'd be very happy to be wrong.
There ARE some nice strummed guitars that start slightly before the first beat, and some "push" styles that have some pushes built into the phrasing. But I'm referring to using the ^ and ^^ 1/16 and 1/8 push chords in the chord view.
For me, this is really the only glaring weakness in how BiaB helps me fill out the music I hear in my head.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Mike, Good point. For the most part I have all I need for making tunes. I would say between BIAB and other software I own, my toolbox is 90% complete. But there are a few missing puzzle pieces. --- Matt, Actually I had a conversation with Mario about winds some time ago. I have done extensive research. Outside Scoring / Orchestral phrase based wind VSTi's there is almost nothing out there for other genres. There are audio loops, but you can't transpose them. I believe PGM has an opportunity to fill that gap. To record a wind player or have a good keyboardist who has understanding of winds write whole bunch of these tracks for SuperMidi tracks. RT 2364 - ElectroFlutes or SuperMidi: 2465 (which is Midi version) by Miles Black would be a very good examples of what I am talking about. This track was done long time ago, unfortunately nothing close was published in years.
Misha, there are some MIDI wind loops or phrases out there; I have a few. BUT as is they are bland, i.e. no nuances. There is a reason for that. If a wind controller produced horn or woodwind phrase they would at least add pitch bend and vibrato nuances. It may sound great on their system, lets say they are using GM. But if the user uses any other sound source then what the producer used it may not sound good at all. For instance if the producer used a 50 cent pitch bend but the users pitch bend is set to 2 octaves, well it just wouldn't work. Same with vibrato and other settings. Different manufactures have different specs. Thus horn and wind loops and phrases keep things bland and let the use add the nuances.
Thus if PGM recorded horn and wind parts with nuances from a wind controller they would work in PGM products but may be a problem for those using anything other than GM
I hope this makes sense.
I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace!
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Mario, it does make sense, but there is a middle ground too. The SuperMidi track I've mentioned sounds good if revoiced with different synths. I've used parts of that particular track at least on 1/2 a dozen tunes and I've heard it on many tracks in Showcase too
… There ARE some nice strummed guitars that start slightly before the first beat, and some "push" styles that have some pushes built into the phrasing. But I'm referring to using the ^ and ^^ 1/16 and 1/8 push chords in the chord view.
For me, this is really the only glaring weakness in how BiaB helps me fill out the music I hear in my head.
I gave up on that years ago. Again the DAW plug-in is my friend. Otherwise, I export the Audiophile tracks and edit the "push" as you call it in Digital Performer.
In this recent example, I used BIAB _OLDBOP.STY. Measures were set 4 beats to a bar but I needed the occasional 6, syncopation was not possible except in the piano and some of the bass. The descending bass notes were flat out wrong for a minor key. All were easily fixed in Digital Performer but I didn't use the plug-in—I really liked the sounds. I used Pure DSP inside DP to fix the bass instead of Melodyne or ZTX as it was faster and I wanted the bass to sound more like I did before my stroke. A friend had laid an acoustic rhythm I liked but in the wrong key so I cut the BIAB drums to match his feel while keeping the bass/piano/rhythm guitar in the same relative position to the drums. I did stretch some of the bass notes and a few piano chords to cover the spaces but only when that was audible.
I was going to edit the hard bop guitar solo but I just cut out parts where I didn't want it. I'd planned the track as a throwaway to be replaced later but the client loved it as-is. Ok... his dime.
Anyway, this is 56 seconds and you should be able to see what I did. Descending order: Metronome/click, Drums, Bass, Guitar 1 (rhythm), Piano, Guitar 2 (lead).
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
...Anyway, this is 56 seconds and you should be able to see what I did. Descending order: Metronome/click, Drums, Bass, Guitar 1 (rhythm), Piano, Guitar 2 (lead).
Mike, super job on your example, and I appreciate you taking the time to lay it out. I do on occasion move things around manually, and it can be, as per your example, really effective. But I wish it wasn't necessary to achieve basic contemporary music forms.
For another example, a strummed acoustic guitar will (in real life) often begin with an upstroke when pushed, and a downstroke when on the beat. So time shifting the downstroke first beat sound to the pushed beat will not sound natural. I could go look for an upstroke and move it around but...argh!
After several years of grumbling about pushes I've (mostly) decided to just keep quiet. This one just slipped out. Sorry.
Last edited by DC Ron; 08/16/2402:26 AM.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Mario, it does make sense, but there is a middle ground too. The SuperMidi track I've mentioned sounds good if revoiced with different synths. I've used parts of that particular track at least on 1/2 a dozen tunes and I've heard it on many tracks in Showcase too
Misha,
Yes of course that is correct also and that is why I said, "may not sound good at all" and "may be a problem". Personally I prefer purchased patches to be bland so I can determine what and when to add said nuances. But if those MIDI patches are totally editable then I am fine with both scenarios.
I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
A bit off topic ... when it comes to keys we exclusively use MST's. We start with an RT to work up the arrangement and later switch to the MST equivalent. I'm spoiled I suppose as Logic Pro has absolutely great sounds for acoustic pianos, electric pianos and organs. So far we've always been able to find a MST that more than meets our needs.
Bud
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