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I'm trying to get back in playing out after a 7 year layoff. I've just been playing at home. Before this I always played in bands that played a variety of music but mostly Classic country & Oldies R&R. That's what I'm trying to do now. Where I live there are 10 places within a 30 mile radius that have live music. Most around 4 to 5 nights a week. I've gone around with a demo and song list and have offered to come in and play on any night for tips only. I'm trying to cater to the older crowd. I have had absolutely zero responses. What I'm looking for is so real honest subjective feed back on what you think of the demo. Not technical critique cause they are what they are. I'm looking for more of the overall non musician opinion. Maybe from friends, wives etc. PLEASE no false praise. I want to hear things like this if appropriate: 1. your boring 2. your voice sucks 3. It just doesn't do anything for me 4. I really like it You get the idea. I can't post the links here so here is an email address if you can help. Drop me a note and I'll send links.It's probably OK if you PM me as well for the links. I really do need and appreciate your honesty. Email: silvertones264@gmail.com
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Hi John Send me a PM with a link. Thanks A couple of questions * Do any of these places have an open mic night? *Are you the bass player? *Could you do a guest set with acoustic guitar? *A buddy and I did a duo back in the late 70s. We started up again in 2000 for a couple of years. We canvassed all the bars for many nights (just research of course  ) and learned what the groups or individuals were playing, and just what the popular songs were. Turns out most of what we did 30 years before was still being done. Since I had old tapes we created new demos with our old instrumentation and hand delivered the disks. Gave them a week to listen then went back during the day and asked if they had a chance - sometimes we did this two or three times. *On the demo we placed our versions of the most popular, audience response songs that we heard during our recent bar surveys. That way the bar managers could directly compare our efforts with the current live music he was hiring. *Do you have any old live stuff that you did with audience reaction. Just a few thoughts - send me the link by PM - glad to oblige. Ian 
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John - here's another quick thought - do you belong to a service club or community group of about 30 people? 30 people - size of small enthusiastic club . . . . sorta. Have a barbecue then set up your rig and do a set or two of good audience response songs and record the whole thing. Make it your demo. That way the bar manager gets audience response - the more response, the more he sees in his mind the higher bar sales from having you entertain.
We also used to hire ourselves on pay weeks - higher bar sales.
Ian
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Tones,
I've heard the stuff you've posted previously, and I think it is very good and quite marketable to the crowd you are trying to reach. I want to do the same thing eventually, but what has held me back is the demographic that currently goes out to hear live music. Around here it is a college age and young adult crowd that doesn't want to hear the music I want to play. Even playing for tips, the wrong music will drive a demographic away, and most business owners aren't going to risk that.
The trick, I think, is to find out ...
1) where older people go,
2) where there is potential for music.
3) where there is a budget for music
Older people are in rest homes, at restaurants, in church, at political rallies, at club functions, at resort areas, at the mall, state and local parks, at animal circuit clubs (Elks, Moose, Lions etc) hunting & fishing camps, . Many of these places have a budget for music. Those that don't might let you play for tips.
The young crowd dominates the night-scene where most live music still exists (when it hasn't been replaced by open mic and karaoke) In order to get a piece of that action, you may need to learn a different set of songs. But around here the young crowd seems to be highly oriented toward original music... much more so than our generation.
I've sent an email requesting the link to your songs. Will comment more specifically afterward
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Quote:
Tones,
I've heard the stuff you've posted previously, and I think it is very good and quite marketable to the crowd you are trying to reach. I want to do the same thing eventually, but what has held me back is the demographic that currently goes out to hear live music. Around here it is a college age and young adult crowd that doesn't want to hear the music I want to play. Even playing for tips, the wrong music will drive a demographic away, and most business owners aren't going to risk that.
The trick, I think, is to find out ...
1) where older people go,
2) where there is potential for music.
3) where there is a budget for music
Older people are in rest homes, at restaurants, in church, at political rallies, at club functions, at resort areas, at the mall, state and local parks, at animal circuit clubs (Elks, Moose, Lions etc) hunting & fishing camps, . Many of these places have a budget for music. Those that don't might let you play for tips.
The young crowd dominates the night-scene where most live music still exists (when it hasn't been replaced by open mic and karaoke) In order to get a piece of that action, you may need to learn a different set of songs. But around here the young crowd seems to be highly oriented toward original music... much more so than our generation.
I've sent an email requesting the link to your songs. Will comment more specifically afterward
Pat,
You've hit the nail right on the head I believe. I've played the Animal Circuit all my life. Although were I am in NC there is an abundance of animals there are no animal clubs.
I just wanted to check and see if it's me. Maybe I'm just to old. At 60 you start getting paranoid. 'Tis odd that we live in the same State and have the same issues. My observations are if it isn't:
1. Blues
2. Grass
3. Southern Rock
You have no chance. It doesn't even matter how bad it's played either.
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Given the repertoire that you presented on the link, I think you'd be looking at the 50+ crowd - focusing on Pat's suggestions to find your demographics.
If the bars in your area are featuring primarily Blues, Grass and Southern Rock in the mountains then to have a shot (as I said earlier) you will need to canvas them and learn the hot songs. In the Mountains, maybe your job will be more difficult as the music might not be so mainstream.
Mind you, a rural area is not the same as a metropolitan area - demographics as Pat pointed out are different. In the city you might be able to get away with an updated greatest hits package catering to the 30-45 age group that listens to Adult Contemporary material and modern Country.
John I'm 62 and if I was going to head out live again, I'd probably still do 60s and 70s folk, and sit down with a list of old Billboard top 100 lists from 80s-2010 and pick a few top 10s to learn. The older we get, the harder it is to catch up - that's the problem with being 60 or so. At 60 we can still cut it but at 60 I guess it's easier to stay with that which is familiar (memories and feelings).
Thanks for the listen - no problem there.
Ian
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Hi John,
I heard your demo's and there's nothing wrong with them at all but in my experience it's about gettin in there and showing them what you can do in a live situation! That's easier said than done I know but I'm not convinced the demo's actually cut the deal.
I'm lucky enough to live in a holiday resort (Devon UK) there are lots of hotels in the area that have a middle aged and above clientèle but I have never secured a gig from a demo even though that is the first thing they ask for! Once in, hopefully word of mouth keeps it going
If you are giving out demo's, I would agree with Ian, that one with an audience response might help.
Paranoid at just 60 ??? Nah never!! Many a good tune played on an old fiddle ;o)
Good luck buddy!
Dave.
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Dave
So true about the demo. I offer to come in and do a live show on an off night or any night for free and "nope I want a demo" so instead of letting the general public decide the club owner decides based on his or her tastes.
Ian,
Thanks also. With 10 clubs with live music and we can really eliminate 3 as they only use piano during dinner it's tough going.
My wife whom I really trust says I need to play ,as Pat also said, the animal circuit. Those are the places I've played the most and enjoy the most.
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Maybe put together a VIDEO demo?
A few friends for an audience, outdoors is always good for video because the sun is the best light.
Set up an awning stage in the backyard and have a party while makin' your demo.
Southern VA is about the same situation as NC, BTW. I don't gig a lot anymore, but haven't really wanted to the last coupla years.
--Mac
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Mac,
Good suggestions however I do think I'm barking up the wrong tree. For the music I play at the level I now sing and play the VFW,Legion,Moose,Eagles, Elks ,etc. crowd is what I need. There isn't one of them within 500 miles of me. Too much of the surrounding area is dry. As they say"the more you drink the better i sound".
I would be honored to have you take a listen though and give an honest critique.
I'll send you a link. If you'd rather not let me know please.
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John,
Please send me the links also.
Later,
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Tones,
I just listened to your songs.. I think they are excellent! You aren't failing to get gigs because of lack o' talent, that's for sure! Maybe they're so good that when people hear the demo, they assume you're going to come in and pull a karaoke on them. For that reason, Mac and Ian's idea makes particularly good sense. If you show them a video, they'll see that even though you're playing backing tracks, you're also playing an instrument. And like Mac said, if you film the video at a party, you can work the crowd and have some fun. Club owners want acts that make it fun for their patrons.
Another thought is this: I recall that a few months ago you were talking about relocating. Cultural differences around the country greatly influence opportunities for musicians. For example, here in the bible belt there aren't nearly as many pubs as there are in the northeast. But In central Pennsylvania where I grew up, there's a beer joint on every block, and they are frequented by working class older people, exactly the crowd you want. Plus the animal circuit is alive and well there.
Another thought, given your current location, is resorts. Surely there's a ski resort near you. How far are you from Dollywood? Pigeon Forge has a lot of tourism, and people who are away from home will pay for entertainment.
Another thing: maybe you are limiting yourself by looking only at places that ALREADY have live music. Try approaching places that DON'T and see if you can present compelling reasons why they SHOULD. That might be a better avenue for offering to play for tips. The owner can try live music without having to worry about losing money if it doesn't go over well. He's got everything to gain and nothing to lose by letting you try. It's a natural win-win for everybody.
Good luck to you, John. You are a very talented guy... in the right place, you should be able to carve out a niche.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 08/08/10 05:42 PM.
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Quote:
. . . Another thing: maybe you are limiting yourself by looking only at places that ALREADY have live music. Try approaching places that DON'T and see if you can present compelling reasons why they SHOULD . . .
Excellent point. Here in the Atlanta area many Mexican restaurants, from chains like Frontera down to mom-and-pop joints, are booking live music on Friday and Saturday nights.
The twenty-somethings and the older performers alike seem to be playing from a similar sixties-forward repertoire. Every one that I have seen uses backing tracks. And every one astonishes me by NOT playing Santana.
R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
Quote:
. . . Another thing: maybe you are limiting yourself by looking only at places that ALREADY have live music. Try approaching places that DON'T and see if you can present compelling reasons why they SHOULD . . .
Excellent point. Here in the Atlanta area many Mexican restaurants, from chains like Frontera down to mom-and-pop joints, are booking live music on Friday and Saturday nights.
The twenty-somethings and the older performers alike seem to be playing from a similar sixties-forward repertoire. Every one that I have seen uses backing tracks. And every one astonishes me by NOT playing Santana.
R.
Interesting. I would never have thought of the Mexican restaurants, but it makes sense.
I'd like to hear from other parts of the country/ world to hear what live music niches other people are finding.
Around here wineries have also become a good source of gigs. And downtown revitalization projects have made budgets avaialable for live music downtown.
Some people just set up on the street and play with a tip jar beside them.
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Folks you can't imagine how much I appreciate all this feedback. I want to thank you all and it will never be forgotten.
I never gave either the retirement community nor the venue without music a thought. Excellent ideas.
I used to play in a band with a friend from SanJose Ca and they have music at all the pizza places.
Seeing that I'm willing, at this point, to play for fun and to get known I thought I also get the word out that I'll play for benefits to help raise money for what ever reason.
I've had some excellent suggestions for moving forward.
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Don't play for free unless it is a "showcaase" event that you sponsor and that would be designed to get you out in front of people and heard.
If you play for free, that becomes your price. It is surprising how that word will get around to the owners of paid venues.
I don't like price-cutting to get the gig either. That has a habit of becoming the new price for all.
Learned all these things the hard way, I did.
Of course, playing for a charity or good cause is not playing for free. Your hard work is your donation to the specified charity.
--Mac
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Quote:
Don't play for free unless it is a "showcaase" event that you sponsor and that would be designed to get you out in front of people and heard.
If you play for free, that becomes your price. It is surprising how that word will get around to the owners of paid venues.
I don't like price-cutting to get the gig either. That has a habit of becoming the new price for all.
Learned all these things the hard way, I did.
Of course, playing for a charity or good cause is not playing for free. Your hard work is your donation to the specified charity.
--Mac
I agree. based on personal experience, anything that affects the owner's expectations of how much he will benefit financially from spending a little for live music will affect EVERYBODY's opportunities. The bad news is that karaoke, DJs and open mic have already changed the expectations dramatically. (and my friends who still make their living playing in a full band are quick to remind me that singles acts playing along with backing tracks have also diminshed their ability to compete)
But cost-benefit analysis is a part of every business transaction. Nobody will spend $1 to get $1 back... return has to be more than investment, and it has to be more than OTHER alternative investments.
Yet some products manage to charge more than the competition. Bayer aspirin gets about twice as much per bottle than its generic equivalent by advertising and cultivating the reputation of being better... even though studies show it is the same as the generic. Playing for free does NOT send the mesage that you are a superior alternative.. it sends a message of desperation and undesirability.
I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on what musicians can do to cultivate the impression that real live music adds something that the alternatives lack. You have at least one advantage.. you are indeed live music, but by using backing tracks you are more cost effective than a full band, yet just as able to stir up the crowd.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 08/09/10 08:24 AM.
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Quote:
Folks you can't imagine how much I appreciate all this feedback. I want to thank you all and it will never be forgotten.
I never gave either the retirement community nor the venue without music a thought. Excellent ideas.
I used to play in a band with a friend from SanJose Ca and they have music at all the pizza places.
Seeing that I'm willing, at this point, to play for fun and to get known I thought I also get the word out that I'll play for benefits to help raise money for what ever reason.
I've had some excellent suggestions for moving forward.
this is a topic that affects all of us. I'm glad to see it get some discussion time. This software has enabled many of us to make the music we have wanted to make for years, but couldn't until now. The million dollar question that arises next is: "NOW what do I do with this new capabilty?"
Obviously, using it for fun and extra income is a good first response to that question... but as you are finding, there are obstacles. It's good to create this searchable message archive that may help others analyze their own situations and determine what music venues might be available in their communities.
I'd like to see a forum dedicated to the topic of gigging with BIAB. It is a very broad topic, and it currently gets a lot of activity, but it tends to be scattered all over the website so that it isn't easy to find the info when you need it.
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John,
I am listening to your demos as I type (Don't Close Your Eyes) and I am on board with the rest of the crew meaning your demos are not the reason you are not playing gigs every week. However with that said and the vast amount of great advice already given (especially don't play for free) I would look into the way you are marketing yourself and if not start, and if you are and it's not working look for ways to improve your marketing skills.
I am not sure if this was mentioned already but don't rule out the corporate circuit, especially around the holidays. Also look into the themed party gigs, Christmas, St. Paddy's Day, Cinco de Mayo, Luau's and even Mardi Gras (yes even away from New Orleans people have Mardi Gras parties). With this said a good place to put a flyer advertising your themed performances is at your local "Party Stores" as many upscale house and corporate parties start there. i.e., put together (I call it my a load of beach/island music. For instance a party planner spends 200.00 300.00 on food and decorations for a party for 50 people or so what's another 100.00 for an hour of live entertainment . . . just saying.
Break a Leg!
PS: Would you consider retirement communities? 99% have budgets for live entertainment and these days they are pretty upscale, I know as I play 65 of them on a regular basis.
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John PM me a link i would love to hear your demo. The wife and I were walking last night around the harbor area ( we live near the beach in California) and there is a monterey bay cannery restaurant, and there was a guy floding up his gear out behind the patio area. He was bagging up a Bose sound system so I walked over and asked him how he liked it, and we talked a bit. We are going back tonight to have dinner and listen a while. He plays on sunday and monday nights. It seems that there is someone there and at the coffee shop on the other side of the harbor village about 5 nights a week during the summer months. Also they have a small cruise boat in the harbor for parties weddings and such and theyu sometimes have a live band on the bow. Kinda funny actually.
Think outside the box look for any kind of restaurant that has a patio, or outside area, or a bar lounge area and ask to play there. Especially if they do not have anyone playing there now. This can help them compete for patrons. Offer something reasonabl, but I agree with Mac, not free cause that is all they will want from that point. If they can get it free why pay? If they have a reasonable patronage, maybe offer to come in for a small fee plus tip jar. Remember some view the tip jar as money that they do not get. Every dollar is from the customers entertainment budget. $60 per night plus tips that is $20 per hour for three hours and if you pick up another $25 in tips not a bad night. After you play there a while keep looking around and maybe next time $70 plus tips. Put cards up on bill boards for weddings and private parties.
Kinda cool there was also a guy in the middle of the harbor playing blues with a small roland cube battery powered amp. He had a nice hollow body electric and no mike just sang over the amp which was down fairly low. it sounded pretty good. He had his guitar case in front and about $10 to 12 in tips so far. I was thinking that right there are three small restaurants with patios, and right in front of them was a tee shirt trailer thing, that has power. Hhmm i wonder if that trailer business would let me plug in my laptop and sound system I could sit there on a stool and play for all three restaurants and place a nice sized tip jar. Ask each eatin joint to chip in $20 and ........ hhmmmmm They all get entertainment and no one has to foot the whole bill. The Tee shirt trailer gets attention for free, and i get to play out on a beautiful summer evening at the harbor?!?!
The reason solo acts are so popular is cause to books a 4 piece band will cost anywhere from $400 to $800 per night, or more. Thus a solo act asking even $150 to $200 is dirt cheap, and way more personal to the crowd.
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