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Thanks to everyone who commented on my previous thread, which contained three versions of this song. I thought I'd start a new thread for the fourth and definitely FINAL version - just so as not to encumber people with all the other, work-in-progress versions  . Anyway, here is the final version of the song - thanks so much for all of your patience, whilst I worked on it. I've left it a couple of days, just to make sure I still like it after the initial "excitement time period", before posting it on here, so ... I've basically kept the jazz piano from the previous version, as well as the drums with brushes, but added a whole new bass, guitar and an extra set of drums. The additions are in 12/8, swing 8 time, working nicely (I hope!) with the 4/4 melody. I think (believe) that the whole thing has found its way, now, but see what you think of the final version? All comments gladly and gratefully received! Worth Fighting For (4th and FINAL version)EDIT (argh!!!!): thanks to Deej, David Cuny and Al-David, I've felt the need to do a FIFTH version. I've fixed the two "but"s, I've hopefully fixed the major problem the arrangement had, i.e. the busy piano ... I couldn't fix the "worth", but there we are. If I haven't bored everyone to absolute tears by now, with this blooming (haha) song ... see if the problems are indeed as solved as I think them to be? If not, I think I'll take a month off, as per Deej's advice, before revisiting it!!! Only kidding, of course, I'm ever so grateful for ALL of your wonderful advice!!! I just hope I'm not boring the forum stiff with yet another version, but ... it did need doing THANKS for your incredible patience! Worth Fighting For (5th!!! version) THE LYRICS:I know That you want to go away "There's no point", you think If you stay ... I know That it is your stance Not to give us, both, That one more chance And yet, if you go, right now You'll never know what could have been So, please, before you close that door Remember: we're worth fighting for. We're worth fighting for. I know That you think we're scarred By our history, and yes, It's hard To drop All our pride, you see, Give us one more chance At victory And yet, if you do go, right now, We might as well have never been, So, please, before you do decide To close this one last door Remember, baby, we're but human But our love's worth fighting for. WE are worth fighting for. THE BAND:Soloist: Eleanor Forte (of Synth V Studio Pro) Flute Soloist: Mixcraft Pro Studio 10 RealTracks in style: 4223:Bass, Electric, Soul60sSlow128AB Sw 060 RealTracks in style: ~4479:Piano, Acoustic, Soloist JazzBalladRH Sw 060 RealDrums in style:JazzBrushes#1: a: Brushes b: Brushes 2 and 4 RealTracks in style: 4232:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Soul60sSlow128 Sw 060 RealDrums in style:Soul60sSlow128^1-a:Hat & Snare , b:Ride & Snare
Last edited by musician17; 08/18/24 02:05 PM. Reason: fifth version added
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Hi, James. Nice! I missed the prior versions, so I'm sure I'll be covering old ground. Eleanor "swings" nicely here with those triplets, and that's fun to listen to. The changing of the rhythm at 2:22? Not expected at all, and very cool!  Did you really intend to put two "buts" so close together? Hrm... That didn't come out the way I intended it to.  Remember, baby, we're but human But our love's worth fighting for. Perhaps: Remember, baby, we're only human And our love's worth fighting for. I think we're only human is a much more common phrase, and comes off as less formal. The lyric We're worth fighting for sounds to my like We were fighting for. It was only after I checked the lyrics that I saw what it was supposed to be, but I'm still not hearing it. When I first heard that long note on the flute solo, I wondered if there were a stuck note or something. 18 seconds it way too long to ask a flutist to play a phrase without some sort of catch breath. But those are just my standard nits. Again, nice work!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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James,
I like the more prominent guitar in the intro . . . and throughout. I've given you this comment before . . . there are sometimes when that piano is just perfect. And other times, it seems like that piano player wants to be the star. I empathize with the challenge of finding a perfect piano track in BIAB. But that's really a nit, and a personal preference , , , so don't change it just on my account. Don't think that long flute note was in the prior versions, but David C is spot on.
I know this is the "final" version . . . but take a few weeks or month or two away from it, and revisit. It's a special song.
Deej
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James, missed V3, but still a stellar song. Agree with previous comments, especially Deej's recommendation to revisit. Think you're moving this song in the right direction, but there's an opportunity for more. For me, the piano isn't always in sync with the vocalist, but could be with some work. A recent posting on the forum (can't recall who!) combined a piano RT with the same RT held chords, which produced a cool effect and worked brilliantly. That might be something to think about. Anyway, back to the beginning...LOVE your song!
DC Ron
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Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Hi James
The song is really good
Great melody and good vocals too
I especially like the melody change at 2:02 - Excellent !
As has already been mentioned, the flute solo might be worth reworking.
But either way, the song is really well done
Andi ;-)
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James, you said "I've basically kept the jazz piano from the previous version, as well as the drums with brushes, but added a whole new bass, guitar and an extra set of drums. The additions are in 12/8, swing 8 time, working nicely (I hope!) with the 4/4 melody."
Well those changes made a huge difference - brilliant
Yes, I agree that this masterpiece is finished.
Brilliant work on this one James.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
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David Cuny: It's so, so good to have a detailed analysis of anything I write. Thank you so much for taking the time to cast a "proper critical eye" on this! I absolutely agree with almost all of your points. The "but" repetition just went past me, when I wrote the lyrics - i.e. I just didn't notice. That's why it's good to have someone like you give feedback! The "we're worth fighting for", I actually meant to ask you about. Is there a way, in the Synth V Studio Pro programme, to enter phonetics instead of normal English writing? I ask because there's always SOMETHING, some word that gets mangled when I write lyrics, and it would be (at times only, but nevertheless) great to be able to just enter the phonetics of the word I want sung. Any help in this direction would be immensely appreciated! The flute solo ... I wrote it with slight but nevertheless clear interruptions on the note, to give the flute player a chance to catch his breath. If that doesn't come through in the recording, that's my fault - maybe the interruptions need to be bigger, lengthier in time. But that was the original intention (though perhaps badly executed ). Either way, yes; it should NOT be an uninterrupted note in the flute It's SO nice of you, and so good for me, to have you "nit" at it. Please, please, whatever I do post on here: carry on THANKS
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Hi James,
I didn't hear any of the previous versions. So, if anything I say is redundant, please forgive me.
I really like this song. I think your selection of tracks is excellent. the only thing I would have done slightly differently is to make the pianist less intrusive on the vocal. if the track weren't so busy, I don't think it would matter much. But considering that it is, it seems to almost want to compete with the vocalist.
And speaking of the vocalist, you did such an excellent job with that. She has just enough nuances to get her so close to a human quality voice. You have become very good with the synth voices.
The song itself is simply gorgeous. The arrangement and lyric are exceptional.
Hope all is well in your world. We're getting by here in Northern Alabama - each day as it comes.
Best to you,
Alan
BIAB 2024 Ultra Plus-all StylePaks*Win11*32GB DDR5*Rhyzen 9745x*AT 2035 Mic*Peavey Nashville 112 Amp*Ibanez ART120* Acoustic/Electric/Washburn D200S Acoustic*Stromberg Monterey Jazz Guitar Loops: https://aldavidmusic.wixsite.com/bestmusicloops
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You landed in a good place, James.
A very good mix.
fj
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The "we're worth fighting for", I actually meant to ask you about. Is there a way, in the Synth V Studio Pro programme, to enter phonetics instead of normal English writing? I ask because there's always SOMETHING, some word that gets mangled when I write lyrics, and it would be (at times only, but nevertheless) great to be able to just enter the phonetics of the word I want sung. Any help in this direction would be immensely appreciated! Yes, you enter phonetics in a number of ways. Note that the English text is written inside the rectangular "note" on the piano roll, and the phonetic version is written above the note. You can double-click on the phonetic text above the note, and write directly into that, which is what most people do. Another option is to enter it where the English text go, but prefix it with a period. For example, ordinarily you'd write the word "hello" into two notes like this: hh ax l ow[hello] [+ ]Note the ax is a relaxed vowel, a "schwa". If you wanted more of an "eh" sound, you could click into phonemes of the first syllable and enter the phonemes: hh eh l ow[hello] [+ ]Or you could prefix the English part with a period as the first character, which tells SynthesizerV that that letters are the phonetic spelling: hh eh l ow[.hh eh l ow] [+ ]Or manually break it across the syllables instead of using the +: hh eh l ow[.hh eh] [.l ow]Because typing into the phoneme section overrides what's in the text, it can occasionally introduce errors if you decide to use a different word. That's because even if you put in a new word, the phonemes will still override it. So it's safer to type into the English section with the . notation. Either way, you'll need to separate the phonemes with spaces. If SynthesizerV doesn't recognize a phoneme, it won't give an error, it'll just ignore it. SynthesizerV uses the ARPAbet for English phonemes, so if you need help figuring out a word, you can use the CMU online dictionary: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudictYou can find additional information in the online user manual: https://svdocs.dreamtonics.com/en/synthvFeel free to message me with any questions!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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First of all, David Cuny: can't thank you enough for your WONDERFUL advice for the phonetics. SO clear and comprehensive. THANK YOU. I've tried to fix the flaws mentioned by yourself (David Cuny) and by Deej and Alan. Result? A FIFTH version. ARGH!!! I do hope I've fixed most of the flaws mentioned, including the two "but"s, and the busy piano. The way I fixed the piano was just to remove it altogether when the voice solo sang - in the first part of the song, that is - where I've left it to play briefly in between voice phrases. I left the full piano in, the second time around. I left the flute "as is", because it's not one long note, but three notes of the same pitch - in between, I hope the flautist can take a quick breath? Hmm. Hopefully it all works better now, though? I'm ever so sorry if I've bored the forum stiff with so many versions of this song, but ... had to fix what needed fixing. Here's the fifth (!) version - thanks for all of your incredible patience, and yes, all feedback welcome https://whyp.it/tracks/199056/worth-fighting-for-18-august-2024
Last edited by musician17; 08/18/24 02:18 PM.
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James as a fellow "Synth voice user" I can feel your pain...but I think you've done a marvelous job with Eleanor...sometimes those kids can be so stubborn!...it's a lot of work but I think the end result is worth it...very nice presentation on a nice easy feel, soft jazz number...great job!
www.soundclick.com/firesongBiaB 2024, Steinberg Cubase Pro 13, Wavelab 11.2, SpetraLayers Pro 10, Audacity, Steinberg UR44 Interface, Yamaha Genos, Roland FP60 and FP10, Windows 10 You are who you are because you do what you do because of what you believe.
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Hi James,
I've listen to both the 4th and 5th iteration of your song.
Lovely melody
Lovely vocals
Suggestions:
1. Piano - the fills should be between the vocal lines not over the top of the vocalist. So you may need another piano part for the Rhythm Piano when vocalist is singing - plenty of excellent ones of BIAB to choose from.
2. The instrumental section soloists should be at the same volume as the vocals - much much louder - otherwise the song can fade away.
3. Vocals - need a cut in the mid to low frequencies - they are boomy and not crisp.
These are not meant to criticisms - I only make these suggestions because I like the song.
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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You got me stoked.... Now I'm waiting for the final 6th version
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I've only listened to the 5th version, but I think it's a pretty good song with nice melodies and well executed.
The only thing I didn't like is this 30-second one-note flute solo at the end, it sounds very unnatural.
But other than that I'm impressed, you're on a good path.
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Nicely done...the synth voice does carry the song well.
Nice band, My only concerns are that the vocal is a little too loud for the band and, on occasion, the piano fills seem slightly dissonant.
Excellent writing & mixing.
Cheers
rayc
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We are late to the party so we've at this pointed only listened to V5. No need to parse it out as you've received a LOT of helpful comments from fellow synth users and others. The whole synth thing is, production wise, well beyond our comprehension. It must take tremendous planning and focus to put it all together. A glance at the wave form before listening told us that it would be an airy mix with a lot of dynamics. And it was and in our book that is excellent. We enjoyed the listen and we are always down with a slow swing! J&B PS Regarding the piano player ... way, way, way back when Bud was learning to play acoustic guitar runs an excellent renown player told him, "It took me a year to learn my runs and 5 years to learn when not to play them."
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Deej, Ron, Andi, Mario, Alan, Floyd, Dan, Nigel, Herb, B.D. Thomas, Ray, Janice and Bud, Wow, wow, wow. Where to start? Thank you so much for ALL your wonderfully kind feedback! I've taken your various suggestions on board ... as Deej says, better leave it for now, and see how I feel in one month or so The song does need a LITTLE more work, but a rest will do my mind the world of good ... so this is it, at least for now Mario: thanks so much for your especially kind words! Janice and Bud: I'm amazed, thank you. Way too kind, but immensely appreciated. Encouragement of the kind you provide so generously goes a long way with any writer, and I'm no exception. THANK YOU ever so much! And yes, the guitar comment is spot on, and made me smile
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Oh, you're a real gas, James --a laughing gas. hehe My favorite part is "4th and final version" quickly followed by the "EDIT: arg!!!" Haha. This whole thread is a wonderful tribute to you and the folks on this forum who willing help others succeed in crafting their music. This final version (well, let's just call it the 5th version) is absolutely wonderful, James (and company). The best part of the whole process was you silencing the ego and servicing the song. What a great result.
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Marty: thank you! That's really great and really kind feedback! As you say, everyone here is ever so kind with one another, and helps one another to (exactly as you say) service the music, rather than our own egos. A breath of fresh air when one considers the usual music industry way, which is exactly the opposite, many times. It's a joy to post on this forum, not only because, when I post a song, I do know that I'm going to get honest and helpful advice on how to improve it. And you are all, without exception, cool people, too The software itself is superb, also ... . What more can one want? A little "miracle corner" of the Internet. Long may it continue. Thanks again, Marty, you always know exactly what to say .
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- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
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