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Hi Music Lovers, Well, I've gone and done it. I've completed my first BIAB/RealBand song. I hope I can get a few listens and some constructive feedback (please be gentle but honest). I'm not new to singing or lyric writing but I am definitely new to literally everything else. I didn't mix/master much ('cuz I don't know what I'm doing), so any tips in that arena are especially appreciated. Here's the song which is about recognizing that the love we want comes from inside: https://soundcloud.com/divinemetime/the-love-inside-1Here are the lyrics: My heart suddenly thrown open I’m by myself no one is around That must mean its inside of me Growing strong like the great oak tree A smile breaks and everything is clear No object of devotion I can go there when I want to When grace is on my side There’s no place love can hide I can sit and be with what is true The love inside of me Is the love inside of you Love is love it’s what we are The love inside of me Is the love inside of you Love is love/shining star It breaks my heart, tenderly open so many look outside themselves for the love they’ve always longed for how was it so damn easy to ignore and miss the inside where it dwells like a fountain and ringing of soft bells May I bring light/ to darkness/ May I bring love/ to the pain of shame Be in integrity/ and let go of the blame and may I know/ the love inside myself May I be happy, healthy and fulfilled. May you be … May we be ... and may we know the love inside ourselves Regarding the technicals, I had the melody and lyrics in my head and serendipitously discovered BIAB a few days later, so over the past two weeks, I've been using the song to learn BIAB and using BIAB to arrange the song. I then moved it over to Real Band. I must say, I owe a lot to Joanne Cooper's Youtube course, bless her! I used a style called SJCOOLP. Not all that crazy about the drums but that's a whole 'nuther learning curve, so I made do. I somehow managed to figure out how to add strings using Midi; I really struggled to get a solo in there and I'm not crazy about some of that (too loud, weird progression?) but it needed something. The harmonies are mine; I didn't care for the generated ones. I didn't do much to the vocals. I may have added a little reverb (lol...I can't remember!) and compression. I'm using such a small computer screen, it really strained my eyesight. I hope PG takes on board the visually impaired, which if I wasn't before I started I probably am now! I think I've covered the requested info. Thanks for listening if so inclined.
Last edited by BYOBand; 08/29/24 02:16 AM.
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Hey. Welcome to the family.
That is a good backstory on how you're getting started.
Nice job on the song especially considering that it's your first shot at this.
My only comment on the production is you can use a bit of reverb on the vocal to make it fit in the mix a little bit better. The vocal harmony sounds good.
Learning the art of mixing and production takes time but you're off to a good start.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Welcome and CONGRATULATIONS on your first BiaB song! This is a really nice first effort, much nicer than mine was. Cool song and LOVE your vocals! Like your instrument choices a lot, and that bass sounds cool up front, though you could probably back off on it JUST a bit. Herb is correct that experience is an essential learning ingredient, and asking for input on forums like this one is also (usually) helpful. Just keep it up, think you're on the right track!
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Quite impressive to go from a song idea to finding BIAB AND finding Joanne AND learning BIAB and RealBAND AND publishing your first Showcase song in a couple of weeks!!!
An amazing first BIAB song.
Looking forward to your journey from here...
Such a positive lyric!
Welcome.
fj
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Hi Guitarhacker,
Thanks for taking the time to listen and reply. I'll definitely add some reverb and if I understand you correctly, that is what makes vocals blend better with other instruments?
Not sure I'll ever have the ear for the finer tweaks, but appreciative to learn what I can.
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Hi DC Ron,
Thanks for the all caps congrats! Okay, so I went a little mad on the bass. It's my favorite instrument. (I worship Mark King.)
On the right track...that's funny. Glad I can ask for feedback on the forum. I really do want to learn.
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Hi Floyd Jane,
Well, if you take into consideration I've been a frustrated musician for about 11 years, it doesn't seem so fast a turn-around, although now that you mention it, it was a pretty miraculous series of events. Thanks for your encouragement and the welcome.
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Oh, yes!! Love the lyrics. Vocals are so well done. BIG welcome to the forum. What a wonderful first attempt at putting it all together with BiaB. I like your choices of instrumental accompaniment. Maybe the bass is a bit too loud --(and that's from a bass player who likes to be out in front  ) JoAnne Cooper was an excellent find. Very helpful in so many ways. Keep 'em coming.
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First of all welcome.
Floyd hit the nail right on the head with his comments.
This is one fantastic first post, especially since you are learning so many things simultaneously.
You have a great voice and you write super lyrics.
You picked the perfect backing band and did a super job on those strings.
My only suggestion would be to lower the bass volume to get a perfect mix.
Checkout person "Did you find everything OK"?
Me "Why do you ask? Are you guys hiding stuff"?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks for the encouragement and big welcome, BabuMusic. Everyone here sure is kind and helpful. I guess I overdid it on the bass. Lesson learned.
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Hi Mario D,
I appreciate you giving it a listen. Thanks for the compliments and for reinforcing the bass feedback; I'll be less heavy handed with it next time.
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Welcome to the forum, BB. Beautiful song with lovely vocals and harmonies, I really enjoyed listening to it. For a first song with BIAB you're doing really well, definitely better than my first song. Since you asked: there are some easy-to-fix mixing issues: - the bass is a bit too loud, I would turn it down a bit so that it plays well on any system.
- the drums could be a bit louder and have almost no bass foundation (but it could be that it's hidden under the loud bass and is fine once the bass is less dominant).
- vocals are good, for me they could be a bit louder (because they are so good), for others they could have more reverb.
Both are a question of personal taste. If in doubt, just leave them as they are now.
But as I said, your song and the production are already pretty good ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/images/icons/default/thumbs_up.gif)
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First off welcome to the forum...great first effort with BiaB and a really nice song to begin with...great message in the song...as for suggestions: I would agree with B.D. that the bass is too loud...the way to fix that is to listen to professional recordings (perhaps in the same genre) from the radio or a CD on the same speakers you use to mix your songs on and don't make it any louder in your mix than they have in theirs (actually that works with any instrument in your mix)...for all of us it's a continual learning experience...mixing is an art, a talent and skill that can be learned...it also makes or breaks the song...again welcome and hope you have a great time here! Dan
www.soundclick.com/firesongBiaB 2024, Steinberg Cubase Pro 13, Wavelab 11.2, SpetraLayers Pro 10, Audacity, Steinberg UR44 Interface, Yamaha Genos, Roland FP60 and FP10, Windows 10 You are who you are because you do what you do because of what you believe.
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Hi Dan,
Thanks for that great tip since for now, I'm stuck with what I've got! I intend to get a good pair of mixing headphones eventually.
I agree that mixing is a talent and I'm not sure I have it, but I can definitely improve some skill.
PS: the strings are midi; I don't have a violin real track in my package.
Last edited by BYOBand; 08/30/24 04:33 AM.
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A great song, very well sung. You certainly have a way with words, expressing deep emotions without resorting to clichés.
If you cut the bass back by 3-5db it would fit better in the mix. In its present form it appears to be the lead instrument and tends to put the others in the shade. Did you use a Real Track for the strings or is that midi?
Looking forward to many more from your songbook.
Brian
ProTools; Ableton Live Lite; Reaper
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 MK4 interface
Novation Launchkey 61 Mk4 midi controller
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Very well done on your first BiaB song. I particularly love the lyrics as it's a theme I'm au fait with. Please listen to my recent song (on the forum) with a vocalist I found on Fiverr (I mostly use BiaB for instrumentals) - "Flowing Lady Deya [rock version]" - as I think you'll relate to the lyrics as the love within is a part of the theme. My only criticism of your 1st BiaB song is that had I been mixing it I'd have added more gain to the vocals and a little less on the bass. All I use BiaB for is getting the samples and as I have very little room in my minuscule retirement flat I only use Audacity for the mixing as I was already familiar with that before discovering BiaB.
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Hi WaoBand,
Thanks for commenting and glad you resonate with the lyrics. I'm about to check out your song...
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BYOBand,
Wow! Love this... A great song and a great vocal. Good selection of instruments and a very good mix.
Welcome!
Bob
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Hi, Beth. A pleasant listen - well done! That's especially true for a first attempt. As others have mentioned, perhaps the fastest way to get a good mix to to compare your song to a reference track - another song that fits the same general feel as yours. You can then compare the attributes of that song against your own song. It sounds simple, but it's really effective. The main thing I think you need to keep in mind with a mix (and arrangement) is to make sure that at any point in the song, the listener is paying attention to what you want them to be hearing. For example, with the intro, you want them to hear the bass, which sounds pretty cool. That's fine, but as soon as the vocal comes in, it's time for the bass to step back and stay out of the way of the vocal. So at that point, you need to bring the bass down in volume. This preferably should happen in a way that the listener doesn't notice it happening. Since the vocal coming in is something new, it'll grab the attention of the listener, you can usually bring it down on the beat and get away with it - assuming you aren't moving from a comically loud volume to something way too silent. The drum is much too low in volume. You'd probably be surprised how loud a drum without considered loud by listeners. That's were reference tracks come in handy, because instead of having to guess where the volume should be, you can just listen to what other people have done. You mentioned that you've got some reverb on the vocals, but it sounds a bit dry to my ears. Then again, it's hard to tell over the bass. As a rule, you should change the instrumentation up a bit between verses and chorus, and even from one verse to the next. It helps delineate the sections for the listener, and prevent a sense of sameness. It can be as simple as adding or taking out an instrument. For example, at 1:30, you could bring the bass up in volume so it's got a solo, and drop the volume back at 1:41, where you've got a stop. Although the bass has a cool bit, you could hold off in bringing it in until after the lyric "It breaks my heart", which would give more focus to the lyric, and a bit more change and drama to the music. Adding a simple instrument, like a held acoustic guitar strum or electric piano, is something else you could add to a verse without changing the overall sound. Making a small change like that leaves the listener with a sense of movement, but isn't such a large change that their attention shifts to it, because we've learned that these sorts of things are just background things that don't need our attention. Keeping the new instrument down in volume also cues the listener that it's just texture they don't need to pay attention. This would be in contrast to the bass, where you might raise the volume to get their attention. I don't think the MIDI strings fit the feel of the song. I think replacing them with a jazzy electric piano solo would be a better fit. It can be something super-simple, but it's a break from what's before, which makes the return to the vocal a welcome change instead of more of the same. I think stopping the song at 3:55 would be a stronger ending, since the focus would be on the affirmation instead of the instruments. If you're thinking all my suggestions are pretty obvious... well, they are.  Again, nice work!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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