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1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) #822915 09/13/24 09:31 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,973 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle OP Veteran
OP Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,973 Winston Salem, NC USA	Quote One of the things enterprise storage and destruction company Iron Mountain does is handle the archiving of the media industry's vaults. What it has been seeing lately should be a wake-up call: roughly one-fifth of the hard disk drives dating to the 1990s it was sent are entirely unreadable. The +++ article +++ is a five minute read. Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1224) RB (Build 7) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #822918 09/13/24 10:21 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,394 DC Ron Veteran
DC Ron Veteran Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,394	Yikes! As a marine engineer, I once did a presentation titled "Everything Put Together Falls Apart" related to the inevitability of deterioration of most manmade products, and what to do about it. Didn't tell them I lifted the title came from a Paul Simon tune... The opportunities for ensuring long term preservation of archived data are much better now than it was then. But that doesn't help recover what's been lost. Hopefully a cost-effective stop-the-bleeding plan exists for the stuff at risk. DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #822922 09/13/24 10:55 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California	It didn't help that the big HDD factory that made everything (brand didn't matter) in Thailand blew up — mid 2000s but I don't recall the year. I replaced hundreds for school districts during the last decade after being called out too many times on service calls. The summer after warranty expired, I was replacing the drives and I tested every single one. If the OE drive was in a computer made 2009 or earlier, there was a chance that it might still be good but best to be safe than sorry. If 2010–2013… still looking for my first one. Although many still worked, the SATA graphs showed that they were on their last legs. BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #822962 09/13/24 04:15 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,973 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle OP Veteran
OP Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,973 Winston Salem, NC USA	What I found scary in the article is the part where the archival company is provided a master HDD and safety backup HDD with both dead on arrival. The HDDs had been stored in a temperature and humidity controlled storage vault. That's music that is likely gone forever. Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1224) RB (Build 7) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #822988 09/14/24 12:50 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,192 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,192 Cooran Queensland Australia	CRUCIAL INFO: STORAGE MEDIA and HDD Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #822997 09/14/24 03:12 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,964 GA USA Janice & Bud Veteran
Janice & Bud Veteran Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 15,964 GA USA	I have a little difficulty comprehending the surprise that over 30 year old components failing. Seems like (as the article alluded to) the issue is failure to upgrade. 🤷‍♂️ Bud Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) rayc #823009 09/14/24 04:27 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,286 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,286 Hamlin NY	That was very good information. I would have liked to have known how long a HD drive lasts if only powered up and rewritten a couple times a year. I have HDs that I use under those conditions for about 20 years now. I also have a number of newer HDs also. I have backups of backups as I do not have the money to replace all of the sounds I have collected over the 40+ years of MIDI and I do not want to lose the many digital pictures I have taken over the years. Thanx for sharing. Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you? 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #823024 09/14/24 07:39 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,727 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,727 Middlesex, NC	But, but, but, I thought that "digital was forever". Just kidding.... but it goes to show that the old adage of "Backup, backup, backup" is as good as ever. Since digital is either go or no-go.... as long as you stay ahead of the inevitable failures, with copying the data... which is a time consuming issue in itself.... your digital info should, at lest in theory, remain faithful to the original, unlike analog which is degraded with each new generation away from the original. Multiple backups that layer each other stored in different formats and locations.... Kinda like the Search and Rescue motto regarding our survival gear.... Two is one and one is none. essentially that means if you have one of something, such as a flashlight, when it fails to work, you have none.... but if you have a backup.... there's that word again.... you still have one that you can hopefully rely on. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #823036 09/14/24 10:54 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,971 Sillie Con Valley, California	Most (all?) HDDs made since 2023 are helium filled. Not only are they sealed but they run cooler with tighter tolerances. I wouldn't buy any that are not. The key to any backup scheme is to have multiple copies. Besides Apple Time Machine, I use Backblaze. My HDDs are used for backup only and they are replaced when the 5 year warranty is up. My only data loss was in 1986 when my very first 20MB HDD died. I was able to use a tape recovery system that I had bought with my Mac Plus to retrieve all but my last 120 invoices and those also existed on paper so I was good after a bit of manual reentry into FileMaker Plus. Lesson learned. These three WD icons are my three WD MyCloud arrays with 22TB helium filled HDDs backing up my entire network over Ethernet and/or WiFi. My two desktop machines each have an additional TM box for that one Mac. BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #823040 09/14/24 11:27 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,459 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,459 Mi., USA	.. or maybe get a cheap hosting package that is redundant (on multiple servers/drives) and backed up I realized this loooong ago I grabbed a $10/month unlimited storage account many years ago Every few years they try to raise my price and I remind them my original agreement was that was the cost; they have conceded every time (grandfathered in) yes, it adds up over time, but now, replacing HDDs for backups is not my problem, it is theirs, and a bad local drive is pretty much not a worry Just another option/suggestion OneDrive or similar can work in much the same way, but not 'unlimited storage' .. likely a 2 GB or so limit for free before they start asking for $10/month or whatever Storage is cheap, and passing the responsibility of maintaining it off to others is pretty nominal. The hassle of replacing drives and hardware is what you are paying for Last edited by rharv; 09/14/24 11:29 AM. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) rharv #823203 09/16/24 10:30 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,766 Victoria, BC Simon - PG Music Veteran
Simon - PG Music Veteran Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,766 Victoria, BC	Originally Posted by Guitarhacker "Backup, backup, backup" Still doesn't sound like enough backups... Originally Posted by rharv OneDrive or similar can work in much the same way, but not 'unlimited storage' .. likely a 2 GB or so limit for free before they start asking for $10/month or whatever iCloud is $1.29 a month for 50gb, that's what I've got. More than enough for my most important stuff. Everything else I've got in multiple places, between two 2-bay NAS'es, a 4-bay external enclosure, a Time Machine drive, and the external SSD that I work from. I work here

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #823233 09/16/24 02:44 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,459 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,459 Mi., USA	Yeah, One Drive has 100GB for $1.99 .. pretty comparable Free is up to 5GB Last edited by rharv; 09/16/24 02:47 PM. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Jim Fogle #823275 09/17/24 02:39 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,192 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,192 Cooran Queensland Australia	"Cloud" storage is something I'm not keen on for a few reasons. Initially it was just security, then along came errors when I learnt that much "cloud" storage is moved from machine to machine on a regular basis to bolster security. It doesn't take much for a redundancy cyclical error sort of thing to occur ,particularly if the folder levels go deep. Finally, "cloud" storage is just sending data to a server somewhere. Storage facilities use huge amounts of electricity, generate huge amounts of heat and use huge amounts of water for cooling...there has been significant impact in Scandinavia when cooling water exhaust has raised local water temps significantly. Not as much damage & waste as bit coin mining though. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Janice & Bud #823276 09/17/24 03:08 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 875 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze Expert
mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 875 Sonoran Desert	Originally Posted by Janice & Bud I have a little difficulty comprehending the surprise that over 30 year old components failing. Seems like (as the article alluded to) the issue is failure to upgrade. 🤷‍♂️ Bud Exactly. They deserve what they get. Upgrade your storage tech every 3-5 years, Use a product like Time Machine, cloud storage and the occasional ssd dump. Not much else to do. You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning. biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro (latest or pretty close) Heddon Super Spook XT (Mullet)

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) mrgeeze #823300 09/17/24 08:41 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,766 Victoria, BC Simon - PG Music Veteran
Simon - PG Music Veteran Joined: May 2020 Posts: 2,766 Victoria, BC	Originally Posted by rharv Yeah, One Drive has 100GB for $1.99 .. pretty comparable Free is up to 5GB I think Google Drive free is 15gb, could be enough for someone. Originally Posted by rayc It doesn't take much for a redundancy cyclical error sort of thing to occur ,particularly if the folder levels go deep. I think cloud storage is fine, as long as it isn't your only backup. Any good backup system has multiple layers. Originally Posted by rayc Not as much damage & waste as bit coin mining though. And nowhere near as much as AI. Originally Posted by mrgeeze You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning. I can't say I know anyone who's been hit by lightning... Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 09/17/24 08:42 AM. I work here

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) Simon - PG Music #823333 09/17/24 01:19 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,026 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,026 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music ... Originally Posted by mrgeeze You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning. I can't say I know anyone who's been hit by lightning... I must say I was a little intrigued to know more about the statistics. The National Weather Services States: "According to the NWS Storm Data, over the last 30 years (1989-2018) the U.S. has averaged 43 reported lightning fatalities per year. Only about 10% of people who are struck by lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability. More recently, in the last 10 years (2009-2018), the U.S. has averaged 27 lightning fatalities." At an average of 270 'lightning strikes' per year in the States, there are possibly more Hard Drive failures / year than lightning strikes. BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.

Re: 1990s Hard Drives Failing (Article Link) AudioTrack #823396 09/18/24 11:30 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 875 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze Expert
mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 875 Sonoran Desert	Originally Posted by AudioTrack Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music ... Originally Posted by mrgeeze You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning. I can't say I know anyone who's been hit by lightning... I must say I was a little intrigued to know more about the statistics. The National Weather Services States: "According to the NWS Storm Data, over the last 30 years (1989-2018) the U.S. has averaged 43 reported lightning fatalities per year. Only about 10% of people who are struck by lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability. More recently, in the last 10 years (2009-2018), the U.S. has averaged 27 lightning fatalities." At an average of 270 'lightning strikes' per year in the States, there are possibly more Hard Drive failures / year than lightning strikes. I agree, You’re more likely to have a drive fail than get lit up. Both probabilities are pretty close to zero. At least they should be if your backup statedgerie is sane. And you stay off the water in a thunderstorm. That’s my point. biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro (latest or pretty close) Heddon Super Spook XT (Mullet)

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