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Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) justanoldmuso #825569 10/13/24 09:35 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda	The wait is over! Sorry for the excessive narrative. As you know I am a consultant and I tend to ramble on when given the stage. But hang in there till the end and you will see the point of all this. BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) justanoldmuso #825580 10/13/24 12:20 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,035 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,035 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Hit the Play button twice? Ok. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) Matt Finley #825583 10/13/24 12:41 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda	Originally Posted by Matt Finley Hit the Play button twice? Ok. That was it! But that makes it sound so trival. I warned you I can drone on and on and I can be a bit of a Drama King. But I hope I have made a more important point. The VSTSynthFont is fully able to play GM sounds from BIAB with sound quality that far exceeds the Coyote WaveTable synth. If one is concerned the size of the synth has now increased from 200K to ~200M, just delete a few of the banjo RTs and you will find the room. BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) DrDan #825595 10/13/24 03:03 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,465 J justanoldmuso OP Veteran
OP justanoldmuso Veteran J Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,465	All. ok i got vstsynthfont installed includeing GM font. first off kudos to Dan for his patience and help in this. much appreciated Dan. its still early days as i have lots more testing to do. but heres some initial observations. in this context i'm coming from the aspect of a new pg user. heres my honest feelings which let me stress are not meant to upset anyone. 1..i feel a default NICE SOUNDING gm sf should be included with the shipped bb/rb package. this would save both befuddling a new user and the user needing to download the sf. eg 'where perchance doth i get this sf from in google.' 2..i would suggest a step by step guide for new users including a vid to help with set up as well as how to use when auditioning pg midi styles via double clicking. it sorta confused me initially until Dan kindly guided me through the install process. such a guide should also mention housekeeping tasks like setting up in win a sf dir and putting the sf into it as well as how to set up synthfont app....eg setting default in bb / going to the special synthfont dialog options and specifying which sf to use etc etc. 3..as to sound quality...yes...better than coyo but obviously not as good as various vi's ive heard or RT's.. but i'm gonna check out other sound sets eg...'timbres'. in summary...yes...usefull but didnt knock my socks off....otoh i would not expect such. finally in summary there is more set up by the user required over coyo and learning how the various features of synthfont vst work. which obviously experienced bb users could figure out.. but when it comes to a new user, maybe even new to music production...particularly a 'gimme now' user...i feel their level of patience might be tested cos lots of new people want fast results these days. 'gimme a hit now' sorta idea. i hope ive given a fair and unbiased opinion. once again thanks to Dan for his patience and help. happiness. om. Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/13/24 03:08 PM. my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) DrDan #825596 10/13/24 03:10 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,484 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,484 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted by DrDan Originally Posted by Matt Finley Hit the Play button twice? Ok. That was it! But that makes it sound so trival. I warned you I can drone on and on and I can be a bit of a Drama King. But I hope I have made a more important point. The VSTSynthFont is fully able to play GM sounds from BIAB with sound quality that far exceeds the Coyote WaveTable synth. If one is concerned the size of the synth has now increased from 200K to ~200M, just delete a few of the banjo RTs and you will find the room. OK .. I think I'm more comfortable now with some of what's happening and has happened in the past. For me at present, I don't have to hit play twice ... once is enough. I haven't (yet?) tried to find out why. Some of those 25-years-old BiaB quirks have definitely muddied the waters for me ... Channel labes, names, patches, whatever. I only have to wrongly trust one of those and all bets on my trust are off. You have similar patchnames not matching the GM names as I and that also had definitely mislead me and confused me. Of course in the past I've set patches on VSTSynthFont to those I think I want, believing that BiaB wasn't setting them, only to have them then 'mysteriously' changed when the song plays. Especially if in the past it's maybe been on the second press of play. I have two things to take from this: 1) VSTSynthFont can work exactly as one would like, subject to a couple of cautions/caveats. 2) There is so much historic and variable 'cruft' in BiaB, I'm not in the least surprised that people get confused and, probably, angly. Personally these days I think a couple of hundrem MB for a decent soundfont is pretty much neither here nor there. If one is reallt desparate for memory, even FluidSynth's tiny default SF2 is only 8M and sounds much better than Coyote. ToH is ~ 426M. Compifont is nearly a Gig. I could probably use that on a Raspberry Pi. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) Gordon Scott #825597 10/13/24 03:17 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda	Originally Posted by Gordon Scott [ I have two things to take from this: 1) VSTSynthFont can work exactly as one would like, subject to a couple of cautions/caveats. 2) There is so much historic and variable 'cruft' in BiaB, I'm not in the least surprised that people get confused and, probably, angly. Could not agree more. Great summary. The only question now is, based on that conclusion, will we get more folks to switch their default synths? BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) DrDan #825600 10/13/24 03:46 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,316 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,316 Melbourne, Australia	Thanks for going to the effort to put that video together Dan. Very descriptive, easy to follow. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) DrDan #825604 10/13/24 04:50 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,035 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,035 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Originally Posted by DrDan Originally Posted by Matt Finley Hit the Play button twice? Ok. That was it! But that makes it sound so trival. I warned you I can drone on and on and I can be a bit of a Drama King. But I hope I have made a more important point. The VSTSynthFont is fully able to play GM sounds from BIAB with sound quality that far exceeds the Coyote WaveTable synth. If one is concerned the size of the synth has now increased from 200K to ~200M, just delete a few of the banjo RTs and you will find the room. Hi Dan. I didn’t mean to belittle your helpful and valuable (if puzzling) discovery in any way. It does sound as if you’ve solved a mystery that was bothering others, and you went to a lot of trouble. The video was very clear. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) justanoldmuso #825612 10/14/24 12:59 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,665 DC Ron Veteran
DC Ron Veteran Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,665	Very cool thread. Appreciate the research and nice video by Dan, and the collaboration by all. I have a GM synth I'm quite happy with in Roland so won't be switching. But this is a great thread, and I haven't been able to take my eyes off of it. Oh, and I learned a new word (cruft!), too. DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) DrDan #825617 10/14/24 03:13 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,484 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,484 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted by DrDan The only question now is, based on that conclusion, will we get more folks to switch their default synths? I think it's atually fairly easy to achieve, but also very easy to get things wrong and get into a mess and/or get confused. This really needs a HowTo and/or a sticky thread that walks through the process and warns of the stuff to ignore. I wonder if your set-up post and the video(s) put together in one post and pinned would be enough. I have to say I find it puxxling that PGM themselves haven't affressed this some time ago. It's telling that PGM don't have that and that if one goes to the "dare to compare" page, they compare RealTracks with a number of older and mostly discontinued synths, including ForteDXi, which has a link to a now non-existent PGM web page of their own. Of course they're selling RTs here, so a comparatively good, later generation, synth and soundfont may be giving the wrong message for them. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) justanoldmuso #825642 10/14/24 05:37 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,675 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,675 South Carolina	Thanks Dan for your informative video. I don't have VSTSynthfont activated on my system so I can't test, however, I suggest when you change Styles and patches, to try resetting using the Generate and Play button rather than hitting play twice and that may eliminate the double click. . BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) justanoldmuso #825645 10/14/24 05:58 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda	I think I tried that. Still took double click. But you may be right, I was pushing a lot of buttons at the time. So Charlie what do you use for your midi synth in BIAB? BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) justanoldmuso #825674 10/14/24 10:17 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,675 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,675 South Carolina	< So Charlie what do you use for your midi synth in BIAB? > Coyote WT BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) Charlie Fogle #825685 10/14/24 11:26 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,232 Wauconda	Originally Posted by Charlie Fogle < So Charlie what do you use for your midi synth in BIAB? > Coyote WT Thanks for being so honest! BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6

Re: DISCUSSION RE COYOTE. are there uses for it ? (includeing example audio excerpt.) justanoldmuso #826413 10/22/24 12:33 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,813 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,813 Sillie Con Valley, California	Quote But be careful about what you wish for! GM has 128 different sounds and to have better sounds could have a huge impact on the file size. Yikes! How old is your setup that this is still a concern? Storage is about the only thing that is cheap nowadays. BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

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