I find no use in adding more styles to BIAB until there is a more effective search concept available and implemented. I have 10k+ styles which I hardly ever use because I can’t find my way around them and find what I am looking for. It normally turns out that I am spending several hours in the style picker and then quit without no results. I normally just pick some very basic or simple style just to have something to do some skeleton work with.
Absolutely. Having so much material at your disposal and not being able to find what you're looking for is really frustrating, and has a very negative impact on the user experience. This is, IMO, one of the weakest areas of the program, there is definitely a lot of room for improvement here.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
A better way to find content is needed, more so as content grows yearly. No use having that "sitting on a shelf somewhere" and trying to find a needle in a haystick. I have a hughe amount of sampled sounds from within my DAW itself, from Band in a BOX and from Native Instruments, just to mention the bigger contributers. And even if I may have more than I will ever need, I may not even find the pieces I do because these are buried somewhere. NI tries to cope with that via a filtering mecanism that has "layers" to describe better what you search for. That demands "Tagging" and this tags are open to the Companies selling sounds, so komplete Kontrol can even find competitors stuff (another example og Coopetition). I see some of this tagging and layered filters in the style picker, but that approach needs to be enhanced to deeper levels, so one can make better use of the content. With the groundwork layed, this shouldn't be a task to different to accomplish for PG Music.
“Musicians”: UltraPak 2026 DAW: Fender Studio Pro + "Instruments": VSTs and REs Notation: Notion 6 Interface: NI Komplete Audio 6 Mic: RØDE NT1-A Controller: Panorama P6/KAWAI VPC1/Atom OS: Win 10 64 Pro
When you only have a hammer, anything looks like a nail. If I want to use MIDI, I use my DAW. The Possibilities with MIDI offered within are stellar today. Hard to imagine how PG Music could compete here. ..................................................
In all due respect then why is PGM trying to turn BiaB into a DAW?
IMHO keep BiaB as the supreme backing track generator and drop all of the DAW stuff.
Like you said "Hard to imagine how PG Music could compete here."
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Ok, let's look at the Melodist section. It's hard to find what you want there. The definitions need another look at. Take EzKeys, it's easy to find an arrangement there and complete songs but BB can arrange a new song, EzKeys cannot. What is wrong with these generated songs is that they lack life, feeling, emotion. The tool is a tool but cannot create without the craftsman. Don't get me wrong, BB was and still is revolutionary but does need a real makeover. It takes hours and hours to get a melodist to sound acceptable, some help in 2025 would be greatly appreciated.
It should be well-known here that I’ve long suggested support for a control surface using the Mackie protocol. With something like a Presonus Faderport 8, you could adjust the faders and panning of the mixer settings, including automated fades. You would also have full transport control, hopefully including a scrubbing function. Best of all, no more use of ‘F5 fade by -2’ limited to a measure to measure basis. A smooth fade is one of the most necessary tools for making a song sound more realistic.
Would this make BIAB more like a DAW? Yes. I’m usually against that, but in this case it’s the natural progression of recent improvements to the audio editing features. The basic principle I hope would be followed is to give composers the features they need to stay in BIAB for as long as possible before the song is finalized.
PG Music recognized the concept many years ago with the Frontier Design Tranzport, which is actually still supported. This is the next natural progression.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
<< Best of all, no more use of ‘F5 fade by -2’ limited to a measure to measure basis. A smooth fade is one of the most necessary tools for making a song sound more realistic. >>
Just a quick comment to be sure you're aware that newer versions of BIAB that have volume automation, this limitation isn't a factor anymore. BIAB's volume automation works on all tracks except the Thru Track. The Master Track is included. Any individual track can be volume automated and the final stereo mix that will be rendered can be volume automated.
The Master Track is capable of volume automation for any media BIAB recognizes. Regardless if the style is midi, SuperMidi, RealTracks, audio or any combination of these media types. On this Master Track, no waveform is visible in the Audio Edit Window no matter what media type the style is, but volume automation works for muting, fade in, fade out and precise volume changes that aren't restricted to measure to measure manipulation only.
I've attached a screen shot of Master Track volume automation on an all midi Style song.
I guess I am a minority, but I would like BIAB to adopt a few of very particular DAW features. Specifically simple multi track recorder. All the functions are already in place in BIAB. Also a new Track View is there. It's just the way this (record vocals or instrument) can be achieved now... to put it gently is awkward at best. A simple: "select input" "arm" / "record" on the actual track header will solve this. This will be especially beneficial to a singer/song writer who doesn't need, or doesn't want to learn another piece of software and just needs a few tracks to lay out their input. For someone like me, it could be used as a scratch pad. To record some ideas / snippets / reference, while still be able to change arrangement without constant import/export and jumping from software to software. -------------------- MIDI. Besides content, I would like MIDI to have proper routing. For example from one track to another, or one instrument to another. Simple example: A midi plugin Scaler, Re-midi, or even EZ line of plugins and whole lot of others that can output midi > routed to a sound producing VST synth. DAW feature? Maybe. It's missing. I want it!
I know these are wishlist things, but since it's an active conversation, these are my 2 cents.
P.S. Kindly don't mention RB. I am glad that somebody finds it useful, but those who don't, likely know the reasons why I am asking not to mention it here.
i know some will disagree or deride me...so be it.. but heres my take haveing worked in tech and seen both successes and failures. hopefully others with experience in tech will see what i'm driving at. and its got to do with tech business strategy or mba 101 in biz schools.as follows... (i'm approaching things from a big picture biz strategic perspective.)
1..the tech biz landscape is littered with tech companies that didnt diversify. i worked for one once in product management and as i was very close to users i warned snr management we needed to take an aggressive posture re our product in the market...at that time i was derided by the higher ups as i expressed my concern for the future of the company. as roxy music once said 'you can guess the rest'. this wasnt a company with a few employees but a very large one. 2..if one looks at businesses that are successfull one will see they diversify. viz..for those that want pg to concentrate on only bb... amazon doesnt sell one product do they ? does walmart ? and i could cite lots of other successfull biz examples.
given the above,and obviously its pg's call the above are just a few reasons i disagree with people who say 'drop rb' and 'concentrate on bb'.
i suggest pg go full steam ahead with bb getting more daw features. (more daw amazeing features in the brilliant bb tracks view concept..) and full steam ahead for more aggressive development of rb and make it a market slayer. (its already choc full of great features i cant find in other daws based on my recent market analysis.)
so deride away....lol. think of the fact that a market slayer rb might bring more creators into the pg fold thus ensureing more revenue for pg and thus more goodies for all bb users. ie...DIVERSIFY !! THINK BIG !! do we really want pg to become just a server upper of content ?... like a waiter in a diner ? or do we want more ? as i see it if bb is reduced to just a 'slave' to other non pg daw products pg has no control over this could have various ramifications..cost of maintenace and keeping up with changes in other daw products being one.
but hey what do i know....deride away. oodles of my wishes/suggestions have been posted in the wishlist section as well the contacts with pg personnel. bottom line i want a great small canadian company to not just survive over the short term but over the long term in this crazy world.
ps Mal.great point re AI. also re medollists.
anyhoo its uk footies today on nbc. thank you nbc....yippee.
happiness
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/19/2405:03 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
om, I agree that PGM should diversify but in all due respect we differ on how to achieve said goal. I would love to see PGM make BiaB a superior backing track generator sans any DAW features for those of us that already use DAWs. I also would love to see PGM add everything currently available in BiaB to RealBand for those whom want a BiaB with DAW features. IMHO this would diversify PGM and satisfy both camps.
om, in no way am I trying to degrade your opinions. We both want PGM to succeed, just in different directions.
Last edited by MarioD; 10/19/2405:16 AM.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Om, tech fails and becomes obsolete, music changes. As long as there's music, there's a place for BIAB. The Airbus a380 was the largest passenger plane in the world and was obsolete and discontinued in nine years. Radio play of Adult Contemporary, classic rock, country and oldies all attest to the lack of obsoleteness of music genres.
Regarding the diversity of Amazon and Walmart, The diversity of BIAB is it doesn't make only one genre of music, only have one RealTrack, one style, one mixer track. The same as Amazon and Walmart, BIAB has lots of products. Its product is thousands of Styles, hundreds of genres, thousands of instruments, thousands of midi styles and instruments consisting of midi, SuperMidi, Sforzando, KV331 Synth, Synthfont, midi notation, midi piano roll, and Playable RealTracks and many more. There's DAWs that don't have the ability to read chords, analyze audio like the Audio Chord Wizard, and none can generate real instruments by real musicians without actually having real musicians playing real instruments.
BIAB has an amazing array of DAW features that are built into the main algorithm. BIAB uses WAV Instructions to automatically and professionally do Fade-in, Fade-out, crossfades, soloist intro's and outro's, it's programmed to mute, return to normal, fade per bar, louder per bar, change by user directed amount. The Audio Editor does all of the most common edits necessary to edit a track.
The Mixer can have up to 264 instruments in a single SGU file. Each with individual pan and volume settings. BIAB has two Audio Edit Tools, BIAB has included effects. The BIAB Mixer functions as a robust, digital multitrack recorder and player.
There's a post here in the Windows Forum where I detailed the steps to create a four style MultiStyle backing track with a medley of four soloists that change with each change of style. You should look at that post, try your own demonstration and decide the next time you encounter a new user, if you think they'll find your MultiStyle demonstration more impressive than a vertical curser or the Live Tracks view.
A lack of DAW features isn't a limitation of BIAB. Every demo, tutorial, and lesson produced by PG Music is finished in BIAB as an SGU type file. Not as a DAW product. PG Music uses DAWs for the things DAW do better, faster and more conveniently but bring those tracks into BIAB not BIAB out to DAW. Check out the PG Music demo with vocals and you'll see they are pro grade.
It makes sense to create and edit tracks in a DAW and import them into BIAB where you have 100% of BIAB's features, tools, instruments, mixer, effects, and Chord Chart to generate and polish your song.
"A lack of DAW features isn't a limitation of BIAB"
Some are. Like simple Arm and record track. The way it's done now, is not for fainted heart users, who don't want/need another program, and want a simple way to record 1-6 tracks on top of BIAB arrangement. Function is there. Implementation is not user friendly. This should be a matter of taking existing code / function and just making it work as user would expect. The thing is called optimizing workflow.
Same goes for simple track to track, or instrument to instrument MIDI routing.
Just a quick comment to be sure you're aware that newer versions of BIAB that have volume automation, this limitation isn't a factor anymore. BIAB's volume automation works on all tracks except the Thru Track. The Master Track is included. ...
Yes, thank you Charlie for the very good reminder. Unless I missed something, you still have to enter each node and drag it, which is what using a fader on a control surface can do for you so much easier. I wasn't clear; that's what I would like to see. Now that the improvement you cite is in BIAB, adding motorized fader control should be possible.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
With all these creative, futuristic suggestions, don’t overlook us simple folks, who only want and need a good style and chord sheet to play out live. That’s my only use for BIAB on a daily basis.
Just a quick comment to be sure you're aware that newer versions of BIAB that have volume automation, this limitation isn't a factor anymore. BIAB's volume automation works on all tracks except the Thru Track. The Master Track is included. ...
Yes, thank you Charlie for the very good reminder. Unless I missed something, you still have to enter each node and drag it, which is what using a fader on a control surface can do for you so much easier. I wasn't clear; that's what I would like to see. Now that the improvement you cite is in BIAB, adding motorized fader control should be possible.
I agree Matt. My point was just to clarify yours. Not only would it be beneficial for control surfaces but there's a current trend in mixers, both analog and digital to include interfaces with PC's that may not control the DAW but allow for external analog mixing from the consoles. Tascam, Zoom, Behringer, Mackie, Yamaha, Soundcraft and most other brands all offer both options now. Behringer's X32 and Wing are control surfaces with 32 in/out and motorized faders and scenes. I have a Tascam Model 24 that I can mix 22 tracks analog from the mixer and route to my PC DAW.
Rustyspoon#, arming a track and recording isn't limited in BIAB. A limitation means something can't be done, not that it's inconvenient for not being included in the Tracks View. Nor is it difficult for the faint of heart. The Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 4th Gen USB Audio Interface is the most popular audio interface in the world for the home studio. It has two inputs and two outputs. It's perfect to record as many tracks as a user needs in BIAB. Also, the recording process would be the same to record six tracks into a DAW as it is in BIAB.
I assume you're referencing a wishlist item for 2025 to expand recording to the Tracks View. That would be great and a nice convenience feature, but certainly doesn't introduce a feature that's not currently possible in BIAB. BIAB has been able to do it for years.
You missed the point I made to do things that are best achieved in a DAW, in the DAW and import those tracks into BIAB instead of the sending BIAB tracks to the DAW. Review PG Music demos with vocals. They are all, each and everyone, finished as a BIAB file.
I recorded six tracks today to ensure I hadn't overlooked that recording multiple tracks had somehow been removed. I've attached a PG Music demo recorded with ten additional vocals and saved as a BIAB file.
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