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Ok - I'll go first. I'm working on the Cherry Lane transcription to John Denver's "Country Roads". I'm comfortable with fingerpicking - but there's so many different changes to the patterns in this song it's giving me a real challenge to memorize it and play it fluently. Now I know I don't have to play the arrangement as in that transcription - I'm not even sure John came up with that arrangement, but if he did, it's really brilliant, giving that "simple" song an understated sophistication.
Also working on "Cat's in the Cradle" transcription, and that one is also tricky.
Now I know I don't have to play the transcription as written, and most people would have no idea, for most of these fingerpicking songs - but it's the fine, subtle picking patterns and rhythms that make the overall song/arrangement sound so good (IMHO). Also on this song, the key really confuses me. The chords to the verse are:
A_________ C_________ D _________ A
My child.... Came to... usual way
What key is this ? I suppose maybe A with a borrowed chord C from A minor ? How would you solo or improvise over that when you reached the C chord ? In the chorus you have the chords
A _________ G_________ C _________ D
And the cat's... Silver spoon Little boy blue....
Again -what key ? A with some chords borrowed from A minor ? And same question ....
Also - what other songs use a similar progression as that in the Cat's in the Cradle ?
Last edited by Joe Videtto2; 11/07/24 06:07 PM.
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Your question about the Key for Harry Chapin's Cats in the cradle is classic and has been discussed before. "...The A, C, and D are based around fitting the A minor pentatonic melody. Basically blues let's you get away with mashing any major chord into that scale. The walk down from G is a temporary modulation to G major, which as a key isn't very far from A mixolydian, which I'd put the overall song in. Now in the G major section normally the walk down would take you from C to Em, then Am, D, G. But at this point he's strongly established A major as the home chord. If the song were in G, the A major would sound like a secondary dominant pulling to D7, but it doesn't. Your brain lets that short section in G jump right back to A." https://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/comments/65t0ge/why_does_cats_in_the_cradle_work/
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The Six Wives of Henry VIII (Wakeman/Yes)
Hopefully don't have to explain why
I had to buy the transcription and actually read some parts of it to learn it. Felt like I was back in school again.
Last edited by rharv; 11/08/24 05:09 PM.
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Circa 1962, Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode!
I actually ruined that album trying to learn all of those licks!
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In the key of A, all of these chords CAN sound right (to me), depending on context: A, B, C, D, E, F, G. I find the slippery harmonic shifts like C# to C a bit mind bending and (potentially) a lot of fun. Posted this tune a few months ago that exercised most of these ideas, just in the key of G. The "wrong" chords helped me express the disorienting effect of being lost in a big city rainstorm...
Last edited by DC Ron; 11/08/24 07:12 PM.
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Hummmm... I'd have to say.... Saddle Tramp* by Charlie Daniels (*the second part) .... and Green Grass & High Tides by The Outlaws. I was in a country rock band at the time with two guitars, bass and drums and we were playing a lot of the songs of that era. And a couple of the songs off Frampton Comes Alive. Those Frampton songs were just fun tunes to learn. One day while I was working on one of the songs on that album, I heard a knock at my door followed by "open up, Police". I won't bore you with the details since I've told it before, but the elevator version is it was a drummer and a bass player from a working band. They came in and listened and invited me to jam with them that night at a local club. I ended up being hired as a full time lead guitarist for their band.
I don't know that any of them were particularly difficult to learn. Challenging was probably a better word if you wanted to learn it note for note. I took a few days of listening and learning to pull them off. Another fun tune was Sultans of Swing because it has lots of little tasty fills throughout.
If you're not familiar with the songs I named.... go listen to them on YouTube.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Harlem Nocturne, - the Viscounts version.
I was a kid. Back then, we didn't have the written music resources we do now. The only things available were at the rack in the music store. There were no fake books, except the illegal ones traded by the then older, pro, musicians. So I learned it by ear.
For the sax it's in F#, which for a not yet mature saxophonist, is a * tricky key.
I wore out and eventually damaged the vinyl record, and it took quite a few hours, picking out the notes, one at a time.
But it was a labor of love, good ear training, and the song served me well for many decades on stage.
Today, I make my own backing tracks, drums, bass, and comp parts, and Mrs. Notes and I play and sing live on top of those tracks. Having sheet music available, an ear trained with many years experience, and physical skills also developed, songs aren't that hard. They can be very time consuming, learing all the parts, and often there are problems to be worked out, but nothng as hard as an untrained ear picking the notes out, one at a time, using a record player as the source.
Notes ♫
* for the guitarist in the group. Unlike guitar, the sax fingering for the same song is quite different in every key. F# was a difficult key a the time, although, I eventually learned to love it. F# on the tenor sax is E on the guitar, the Bb sax is tuned two half steps higher.
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.......................................
* for the guitarist in the group. Unlike guitar, the sax fingering for the same song is quite different in every key. F# was a difficult key a the time, although, I eventually learned to love it. F# on the tenor sax is E on the guitar, the Bb sax is tuned two half steps higher. I got a chuckle out of the above. I joined my first wedding band in 1970 and the leader was a saxophonist. I had to learn how to play in all of the flat keys. Eb is one of the hardest keys for a guitarist to play, that is until you really learn it. Luckily I could read music so that helped. PS - I still have one of those original "illegal" fake books! I had to buy one so I could practice in those darn flat keys!
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Many of my sax and trumpet playing friends adore Bb, Eb and Ab. I think because a lot of standard jazz and big band tunes are written in that key.
I've known pianists who like the flat keys because they can feel the black keys on the piano without looking at it.
Since I was in Jr. High, instead of brass bands, I've played with guitarists in rock bands. I'm more comfortable in concert E (F# on tenor sax), A (B on sax), G (A on sax) than I am in Eb or Ab.
For rock/blues songs I prefer concert E, F, and G due to the characteristics of the tenor sax (F#, G, A.) and how the tone changes at the octave break. But I can play in any key, some more fluently than others, only because more songs are in those keys.
Play in any key often enough, and your muscle memory will eventually make it comfortable.
For those who don't know, when changing the key on the sax, the fingering is entirely different. So learning a song in one key, and then modulating it up a half step, is like learning the song all over again.
Fast forward >> and the seventh instrument I learned how to play is guitar. Playing a song in C that changes to C# at the end. What? I don't have to change the fingering, just move my hand up a fret? Wow!!! Wanna change it again??? And again!?!?!?!?
On the other hand, reading music is much easier on the sax. One note at a time, and no choice about which of the multiple same note positions on the fretboard to choose.
But of all the instruments I've learned, what I call the 8th is the most difficult - voice. On the sax, I press the right buttons and the right note comes out. The voice doesn't work that way. I spent more time devoping how to be an adequate singer than I did on any other instrument I've tried so far.
Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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For those who don't know, when changing the key on the sax, the fingering is entirely different. So learning a song in one key, and then modulating it up a half step, is like learning the song all over again. Well, yeah. Same with a lot of other instruments. Moving up a half step on any brass instrument is totally different too (and to be honest may affect my note choices at times, not because of the note, but because how that fingering would sound ..)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I've known pianists who like the flat keys because they can feel the black keys on the piano without looking at it. An interesting approach, that I guess might work for some. I don't know the full explanation, but I can sit at a piano, close my eyes and then play any note or chord with my left hand. Black keys don't usually matter. I was at a George Shearing concert many years ago, and he mentioned that someone had asked him how did he know where Middle C was? To the audiences amusement, he stated that it was simple: "it was the C note nearest to the key lock on the piano" 
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Mornin' everyone.... I'm just a rhythm guitarist/song writer. There is (2) that come to my mind right away. When I do select a cover to flesh out I adhere to the original as best as I can. So, for me: 1) Kid Charlemagne: Steely Dan Lots of changes and many different ways to play it. With the help of my collaborator-in-chief (Ken Lasaine) I finally chose my way to play it and it took me a couple months to actually get comfortable with it. 2) Rio De Janiero Blue: Randy Crawford. A very smooth, captivating song with impeccable vox by Randy. Coming up with the best way to play the chords was a challenge for me. Thanks to Kens' help again I stuck with it and became 'comfortable' with this one too. My version of both is on my YT page if remotely curious. I was quite nervous when recording both of these and almost screwed up the KC take early on but got lucky and recovered my rhythm playing composure. Happy Veterans Day and my respect to all that have served honorably. Carry on.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 11/11/24 06:09 AM.
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<...snip...>
An interesting approach, that I guess might work for some. I don't know the full explanation, but I can sit at a piano, close my eyes and then play any note or chord with my left hand. Black keys don't usually matter.<...> I was in a band that hired a blind pianist, Gilbert Montagne, who went beck to France and became a major star. He could play in any key and could hear the changes without asking what the chords were on songs he played for the first time. On the other hand, I've noticed a lot of Stevie Wonder songs are in flat keys. I guess it depends on the player. I'm not a good enough pianist to play without looking at the keys when I need to move hand positions. Same with guitar. Since sax/windsynth/flute occupy most of my playing time, I just haven't put in the thousands of hours required for that skill. But I still get a little delight in changing keys on the guitar, and keeping the same fingering.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I was at a George Shearing concert many years ago, and he mentioned that someone had asked him how did he know where Middle C was? To the audiences amusement, he stated that it was simple: "it was the C note nearest to the key lock on the piano" Oh, right, that's my problem then ... my MP6 doesn't have a key lock. 
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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I've known pianists who like the flat keys because they can feel the black keys on the piano without looking at it. An interesting approach, that I guess might work for some. I don't know the full explanation, but I can sit at a piano, close my eyes and then play any note or chord with my left hand. Black keys don't usually matter. I was at a George Shearing concert many years ago, and he mentioned that someone had asked him how did he know where Middle C was? To the audiences amusement, he stated that it was simple: "it was the C note nearest to the key lock on the piano" I've told this before.... At a church I attended several years ago, I was in the orchestra. We had 3 really, really good piano players who swapped out or one was on the piano and the other on a synth/organ. The other one was the music minister and was the conductor. You could put a piece of music in front of any of them that they had never seen or heard before. Didn't matter what the key was. They could look at it, and then play it flawlessly like they'd been playing it their entire lives. BUT, tell them we're going to jam in the key of A major with a 1-4-5 progression and they had no clue what you were talking about and they were, in fact, unable to play along. Of course, I was just as clueless on the flip side when I was presented with a piece of sheet music with 5 flats and no chord charts. Practically everything we played on the stage at that church was in the keys of Bb, Eb, and Ab. It was interesting, to say the least, to play along with the orchestra. Yeah, an no capo.... I'd learned the chords and didn't use one and that blew the mind of the other guitar player.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
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Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
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202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
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- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
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XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
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