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Is there a way to improve the fidelity of BIAB? I’m playing it from a Microsoft Surface Pro through a QSC K Series PA speaker. When I turn up the volume for a gig it gets muddy.
Any suggestions most welcome. Thanks.
Cheers! -Alastair
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When you turn up the volume on the Surface or the PA?
Might help to find the source of the problem.
I'd suspect using an interface instead of going directly out of the Surface audio might help. (if that's what you do)
Even an inexpensive 2i2 might make all the difference so the conversion from digital to audio uses better convertors, as I think the Surface likely has a headphone level out, not Line level.
Last edited by rharv; 11/29/24 07:00 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I agree with rharv to change your output source from the Surface Pro.
An alternative output that's suited for live use is any small format mixer with USB. USB will provide proper level to the mixer and have decent converters. This will assure you are matching transfer between devices, give more routing flexibility and small format Mackie, Yamaha, Peavey, Behringer mixers are very affordable and can have effects and EQ. Some even have capability to record performances to an SD card.
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AlastairLC...
see my tips in pg tips forum to save me retyping lots.
lots of great interfaces and mixers out there for better sound quality.
merry x.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/30/24 06:51 AM.
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I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the output is the mini headphone jack. There are several reasons why that’s a bad idea (not Line Out level, prone to static in connection, jacks break easily). If so, Yes, get a USB audio interface like Focusrite or Presonus, and connect that to your QSC monitor. I have several QSC monitors that I think are great; I don’t think that’s a problem.
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Thanks everyone.
The Microsoft Surface Pro 9 has two USBC outputs.
I thought I’d try the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 4th Gen USB Interface.
I don’t understand why or how it will improve the fidelity but I’ll give it a go.
Cheers! -Alastair
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Good call, might surprise you.
The audio stays digital until it gets to Focusrite, then their convertors turn it into audio
The Surface was trying to do the conversion (which is not it's forte) and then a headphone level signal was trying to drive the PA input (mismatch).
The new choice should make a difference, but just know, the SOLO will draw its power from the Surface USB (no other power supply) so keep that plugged in.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks but I still don’t understand. Going from computer to PA, digital gets changed to audio. Going from mic to computer (as shown in ads), audio must get changed into digital. Can the interface do both?
Cheers! -Alastair
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Yes it does both (A/D & D/A)
Two big differences
1. Using Surface, Windows is doing the conversion, instead of an interface designed for the task. (much better convertors)
2. While the headphone out is audio, it is a weak audio signal compared to Line level, so the PA has to try to do more with less.
The PA 'expects' a line level signal and is designed for such.
The difference is very apparent when plugging a headphone out (like a phone or laptop) to my powered monitors vs. compared to a line level signal, like an interface. There's a world of difference that simply turning up the Monitor volume can't fix.
I think once you try it you'll notice right away.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks but I still don’t understand. Going from computer to PA, digital gets changed to audio. Going from mic to computer (as shown in ads), audio must get changed into digital. Can the interface do both? The output level to the PA is better and better adjustable. The preamp in the Scarletts are better then just about any PC. The A/D and D/A are better, ditto. The connectors are better. Before I bought my first external interface I had persistent issues with sound not always being good, with earth loop hums, with CPU noise. Even good audio plug-in cards were a bit patchy on performance ... sensitive audio electronics inside the same box as CPU, memory, discs and the rest is just not really a good environment. I bit the bullet and bought one of the original Scarlett 2i2s and it made a huge difference. Better quality all round and no more issues with hums and things. Before long I'd also bought a Solo for my wife's PC, then a Saffire for my music PC, then an 8i6 for a laptop. I haven't regretted any of them, though if doing it again now, I'd probably get an Scarlett (USB) 18i20 rather than the Saffire (Firewire and now old). All of my audio interfaces are Focusrite, but I think the good names are all pretty good(*), e.g. Presonus, Motu, Universal Audio, RME, etc. (*) Apparently many have less gain in the preamp than is optimum for some particularly quiet dynamic microphones. The Shure SM7 is often mentioned in that context, though newer SM7 series now have a built-in preamp.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 12/01/24 10:55 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Got it. Tried to hook it up but so far no sound.
I assume the cable from my Surface Pro, running BIAB, goes into input 1 with a 1/4” phono jack, which I assume has to be stereo. (?)
Then my QSC speaker is hooked up to the two line outputs using separate mono 1/4” phono jacks adapted to RCA plugs.
If so, I need to buy the right connectors.
Please let me know if I’m not understanding this correctly. Thanks.
Cheers! -Alastair
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The surface should connect to the interface via USB cable, not audio.
Then the interface uses the Line Out to the PA.
The Inputs on the SOLO are for an additional guitar or Mic.
I do not remember if the SOLO required a driver installed or not, I don't think so, I assume the Surface will just 'see' it and load a driver.
The bigger Focusrites like 18i20 do require separate drivers but I *think the SOLO and 212 do not.
Did the SOLO come with a USB cable?
Last edited by rharv; 12/03/24 03:17 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks rharv. That did it. I used the USB cable it came with.
Strange that the manual doesn’t indicate that the USB port, which is on the back panel with the “out” ports, is the necessary input. Directions were sadly lacking.
The only problem is I have the turn the volume way up on the Surface Pro and the QSC speaker.
I’m not sure it'll be loud enough for gigs.
Cheers! -Alastair
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Increase the volume of the songs that are getting sent from the Surface (ie the file itself), then it's exponential afterwards.
The files I play thru the interface to the powered speakers can be made loud enough that it gets hard to get close enough to the speakers to turn them back down!
Did it help with fidelity? That was the original goal; do they sound better?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks rharv. That did it. I used the USB cable it came with.
Strange that the manual doesn’t indicate that the USB port, which is on the back panel with the “out” ports, is the necessary input. Directions were sadly lacking.
The only problem is I have the turn the volume way up on the Surface Pro and the QSC speaker.
I’m not sure it'll be loud enough for gigs. My Solo is rather older, but I expect the operation would be similar. If the level seems low, then I think there's still something not set right. The large rotary control on the front panel should give good adjustment to set the volume and I suspect that's what's not yet set right. I think it control both the headphone volume and the output volume on the reap panel jacks, which may be fooling you. My Solo manual says a maximum of +9dBu, where the normal line level is +4dBu, so you should have almost twice the voltage levels available than you need. I would expect the Surface to send sensible data. IIRC there's usually a mark on the Windows volume control dialog that shows the 'normal' volume setting. You don't say what you have connected where, which would be helpful to help us spot any user errors. Perhaps you would indicate what you have connected where and to what the various switches and knobs are set.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Thanks rharv.
I’ve turned the volume on the Surface Pro (playing the BIAB tracks) from my usual 12-14 up to 75 (out of 100) and the volume on the QSC speaker to near max. (And that’s in my studio!) I don’t understand why the interface robs the track of so much volume.
I haven’t done a side by side fidelity comparison yet. Will do tomorrow.
Cheers! -Alastair
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Thanks Gordon. I forgot to mention that I have the “Monitor” dial on all the way.
I’ve got USB connection in and one phono plug out to the QSC speaker. (I've ordered a dual mono cable.)
Cheers! -Alastair
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I don’t understand why the interface robs the track of so much volume. It shouldn't which is why we think there is some setting that is still not right. On my focurite units the Monitor dial does not control the volume of line outs. Does yours? (if you turn the Monitor dial on the focusrite does it make a difference in the PA while a file plays?) My gut says it is something before it leaves the Surface. Are the files themselves weak in volume? When you play them on the computer, how do the VUs inside the computer look? Whether it's BiaB, Windows Media Player, VLC Player (whatever) .. they all have meters to show what kind of software signal is being sent to the computer before it ever gets to the physical outputs.
Last edited by rharv; 12/03/24 05:28 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks rharv.
I can check all that out, but consider this:
I run BIAB on my Surface Pro, volume at 12, straight into my QSC speaker, volume at 75% for gigs. Then I insert an audio interface in the middle of that and I have to raise the Surface Pro volume to 75 and the QSC speaker to near max.
Why?
Cheers! -Alastair
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That's what we're trying to figure out.
Re-reading your previous post;
Why is there a 'phono' plug from the interface to the speaker?
"I’ve got USB connection in and one phono plug out to the QSC speaker."
That should be a decent line level cord. (?)
1/4" to 1/4" regular cord.
Last edited by rharv; 12/03/24 08:00 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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