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Just wondering how collaboration works, say if somebody writes a song and needs someone to play an instrument that you met on a internet forum, is it a forgone conclusion that if you ask someone to collaborate with you then the finished song including melody and lyrics is shared 50/50 between both parties, that is if it ever happens to make some money?
Musiclover
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Hi Musiclover,
In my experience, a 50/50 split would usually be between two writers who have had equal input into composing a song. It might be that one person does the lyrics, the other does the melody; maybe the two writers contributed equally to music and lyrics; etc. A person who is involved in the playing of an already written song (such as putting a demo together) does not usually get a royalty split as they are paid upfront for their work as a studio musician.
I have also found that it's a good idea to discuss money (payment, % of royalties, etc.) and to sign agreements prior to committing myself to any involvement with a project. When it comes to writing songs, I've learned that there's no such thing as a "foregone conclusion".
A book you might like to read that discusses this as well as a whole heap of other stuff is by John Braheny and it's called "The Craft And Business Of Songwriting".
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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If you plan to market the song you should probably mention that up front when you talk about collaboration. Any arrangement is OK as long as both parties agree. You may want to get the agreement in writing. People tend to get industrial amnesia once they see dollar signs
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Quote:
Just wondering how collaboration works, say if somebody writes a song and needs someone to play an instrument that you met on a internet forum, is it a forgone conclusion that if you ask someone to collaborate with you then the finished song including melody and lyrics is shared 50/50 between both parties, that is if it ever happens to make some money?
The scenario that you describe above (somebody writes a song and needs someone to play an instrument), the someone playing the instrument does not get any writer's credit. They didn't write the song, they added to the arrangement. Songwriters basically do the lyrics and melody. Everything else is arrangement. Sometimes a signature riff can become part of the "melody", but normally it does not.
Whenever you write with somebody (lyrics and/or melody) equal splits are the easiest. Two writers = 50/50, three writers = 33/33/33 (I get the extra 1%). Considering that 99.99% of all songs do not make money, there really is limited need to sign co-writing agreements (legal agreement = lawyers = $$$). Just get to know your co-writers first and make it clear that everything is split equally. If you and I write a song together and I only added a couple of lines, but you got inspired and did everything else including the music -- I would still expect it to be 50/50. Anything else leads to counting syllables and bad feelings. Of course, if you doing almost everything becomes a habit in our co-songwriting ventures, then you will probably not write with me for too much longer.
If you co-write with someone and the relationship goes bad, no amount of contracts is gonna save you. What are you going to do, sue them and give a lawyer $15-25K and collect nothing? OK, if the song goes to #1, you might find a lawyer to help! In most cases, you just write another song.
Kevin
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Kevin, thanks for a splendid answer. I thought about answering and then didn't.
You covered it well: there's basically two questions in this post. (1) Having someone play on your song can be a collaboration and (2) co-writing a song together can be a collaboration.
In your response I believe you covered both QUITE WELL!
Thanks!
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I've played on a number of albums as a bass player. i was paid for the session and signed off on any future claims. Done deal. The same would happen hear. You want me to play bass you pay me or I do it for nothing. Either way get the person to sign off as being paid in full.
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I've played on four CDs released in 2010, and was paid as a sideman for each. I also did arranging for three of them, and was paid separately for that in advance of the session. Eight of my compositions (all started in BIAB) were recorded by these other artists. None of this created any collaboration in songwriting.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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