PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Are you guys using more or less midi than a year ago?

With many people here using things like Toontracks, I assume some of you are converting Real Tracks to midi.

I almost always convert the BB bass tracks to midi because I own very good bass programs like Trillion that produce sounds I like.

What is the state of affairs with midi currently? Are Real Track drums also recorded with midi triggers?

Thanks,

Billy

I use almost 100% midi with VSTi's and have for the past years. My drums are almost exclusively EZDrummer3. Fact is I am not sure why I am still here - other than I am old and I have no where else to go.

I'm a bit slow to change, but using MIDI output generated by BiaB to drive VSTis is on my ToDo list for 2025.

Actually some are, it was a request some years back .. may have to 'also load RealChart' to see it, I don't recall right now.
/Sorry, in the middle of a rebuild of music machine (new MB, processor, M2 drive, etc) so can't easily look to see .. stupid processor is taking forever to get here.

Virtually all of my songs start with BiaB MIDI, either MIDI styles and/or RT MIDI charts.
I have been doing MIDI since the late 1980s. I find working with MIDI a lot easier and more enjoyable than working with RTs or other audio like loops. YMMV

I started years ago using a lot of midi. In the early days of digital recording, practically everything I was doing was midi based.

With BB and real tracks, I have gotten away from midi for the most part. I now prefer audio tracks over midi tracks. I use it now when I need something that I can't get from the RTs or I don't have the instrument.

In BB, at least for me, all of the midi styles could literally go away right now and it wouldn't be a concern for me in the least. I don't think I have ever used a midi style for anything I have done with BB.

Midi serves a useful purpose in my studio. So I don't hesitate to use it especially since programs are making it easier to use and create great tracks.

As time passes, I am beginning to have some memory issues. It is a little more complex than that. There has been some loss of physical dexterity, which makes playing the guitar more difficult. Plus I have been almost 100% away from the music for over a year now. Perhaps things will improve with practice. I am finding it possible to play piano with less issue than guitar.

As a result, I have been trying to figure out how to create a song much more electronically.

Real Tracks seemed to be the direction BB was going in and continues to go in. I assumed a lot of the posted music was derived from the manipulation of real tracks and perhaps a live guitar and vocal.

It has always seemed to me that I could create a BB song but I never could quite create one of my original songs in BB. That was what caused me to move more and more into midi.

The effects of throat cancer surgery have caused speaking to be difficult and singing to be more or less impossible. The frequent use of opioids to control the pain causes their own set of negative issues.

I certainly have zero desire to push a button and have a song spit out as in AI. I also have zero interest in letting BB or other programs choose the chord structure and generate a song.

I seem to have forgotten most of what I know about Mylodyne but at least today I took a couple of Real Tracks and converted to midi with no issue. Piano Real Tracks, which I then could play out with EZkeys and the zillion sounds it can create.

I would like to have an idea of what sort of process you guys go through.

I generally have a chord progression in my head or play one on the piano, type that into BB, and pick a style.
I generally have some lyrics written down before I start which defines the chord types to some extent. Drums get created in Addictive Drummer or Superior Drummer many times using the drums generated in BB as a starting guide.

I am finding ChatGPT very useful in generating lyrical ideas. It is a little too much like poetry and requires a lot of work to get it to suit me, but a good starting place.

With this sort of process, it seems like BB is becoming a smaller part of the process every year.

I see a lot of talk on the forum about other software being used in conjunction with BB.

I am just wondering if others here are finding BIAB and unaltered Real Tracks to be a smaller part of the final song.

Thanks,

Billy

Billy, every song I do starts with a RealStyle, usually an "all Real" style. Will always use the included RealChart to replace a piano RealTrack with a VSTi. Will usually do this for strings, too. Sometimes for bass. Will always use RealDrums and guitar RealTracks.

You mention using Melodyne to extract MIDI from piano RealTracks but I've never found that to be necessary since the MIDI charts are included. I DO use Melodyne to sculpt the sound of RealTracks by changing the timing, eliminating "wrong" notes, reharmonizing phrases, etc. I find it faster and more precise than regeneration in many cases.

I'm 67 and so am experiencing a lot of the issues that come with surviving. Believe the exercise of creating music is a healthy part of keeping my mind active, and it's something I enjoy tremendously. BiaB works for me, and every instrument you hear on my tracks is BiaB or me.

Am watching AI developments closely, but don't plan on using AI in the creation process. I can see why others might enjoy it. But it's just not for me.

I'm mostly MIDI.

Why?

With MIDI I can edit the very good output of BiaB, and turn it into something I can use on the gig. The RTs are nice, but in the business of live performance, BIAB is not quite ready to outshine my competition.

There are so many edits you can do with MIDI that you can't with the RealTracks or any other prerecorded audio. Things like: Custom intros/endings - add song specific figures - change drum instruments - change instrument sounds - change chord inversions to feed a note to the singer - exaggerate or change the groove - custom kicks/fills - and so much, much, more.

As an auto-accompaniment app, BiaB is simple the best. But with some edits, you can take the best auto-accompaniment output and make it even better. Editing BiaB can make it more expressive.

As a lifetime pro musician, I've learned that tone is great, but expression is much more important. If tone was most important, singers like Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, John Lennon and so many others would have never been stars. And what is good tone anyway? Take guitar, is it Hendrix? Jeff Beck? Slash? Clapton? Terry Kath? Django? Joe Pass? Charlie Christian? Kenny Burrell? And on which guitar?

I have an array of hardware synths and sound modules with thousands of voices. I'd say they are over 90% as good as the "real thing", and with the editing capabilities, I truly believe I can make the song better than the RTs and overcome that 10% difference.

Of course, that's not for everyone. I've been editing MIDI since it first came out. It's a skill, like learning a new instrument. If I just wanted plug-and-play, I might prefer RTs for some songs and MIDI for others, depending on the style.

As always, there is more than one right way to make music, this is just my way.


Insights and incites by Notes ♫

I think I know everyone here who has responded, either from the forum, the telephone, or at your house. I think all of you are musicians. All of you have your own ideas of what you want something to sound like. I assume we all come from a live background of some sort.

As I see it, there are only three ways to get real control over the music.

1. Play it live or have someone else play it live
( It can be super difficult to get other musicians to play exactly what you want to hear, even the best most willing studio musicians)

2. Convert things to MIDI
(this is the direction I am currently trying to go in)

3. Score out every track in standard notation (I assume this provides the greatest control and the most work)

I am beginning to think that MIDI may be the most popular way for people who want maximum control over the outcome. I sometimes write simple bass lines out in standard notation as a quick way to get exactly what I want and then convert it to MIDI and play it out with Trillian.

Some of this desire to change is based on physical issues I have to deal with.

I am not married to any method and I am willing to change how I do things on suggestions you guys may have.

Thanks,

Billy

Most definitely.

As a multi-instrumentalist, I can lay down drum, bass, guitar, comp, keyboard, flute, sax, wind-synth and vocal tracks.

But I record to MIDI. Why? With MIDI I can 'play' instruments I cannot play physically, like violin, harmonica, trumpet, trombone, and so on. Plus, with MIDI instead of audio, I can edit to my heart's content.

With pre-recorded audio, you are pretty much stuck with what you got, not so with MIDI.

While mixing, if I decide that guitar would sound better if it sounded more like a Tele than an LP, I can change it. If I think a cymbal on the drum kit should be a cowbell, drag and drop. If I want to add more crack on a snare hit, double it, change one to a timbale, and advance it a bit. And these are just the simplest edits.

In other words, with MIDI, I can make the song sound exactly as I hear it in my head, with pre-recorded audio, I'm stuck with what I have.

That's why, MIDI is embedded in the DNA of virtually every musical hit recording.


Insights and incites by Notes ♫