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The research I done suggests
The U.S. Copyright Office requires that the work must contain a significant amount of human authorship
When registering, you should disclose that the lyrics were generated with the assistance of AI

I need more info as to what a “significant amount of human authorship” really means

Say if I used the generate an entire song option

Last edited by pghboemike; 12/30/24 06:18 AM.

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So.... lets discuss something else for a minute. If you decide to build an airplane, for example.... there are different rules one must comply with when the airplane is registered depending on if it is home built or factory built. You can buy kits, which contain all the parts and in some cases, some of the parts are assembled in the factory. But to qualify as a home built airplane, and to comply with the regulations, the kit builder must contribute a minimum of 51% of the effort in the build. Many kits are advertised as 49% complete to meet the home built requirements.

So, back to music. If you are claiming the copyright on something that originated as AI or machine content, you should have edited it to the point where you have done the most work on the finished product. If AI writes 3 verses and a chorus, and you change a few words and a couple of lines, that would probably not qualify as "significant amount of human authorship" in the eyes of the LOC. The bigger question though is, how are they going to know exactly how much you wrote vs how much was from the machine or even that it was machine produced content at all? If you don't disclose that fact, they will never really know.

Currently, it's down to what your conscience lets you do.


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Originally Posted by pghboemike
The research I done suggests
The U.S. Copyright Office requires that the work must contain a significant amount of human authorship
When registering, you should disclose that the lyrics were generated with the assistance of AI
.......................................

But what if all of the lyrics were AI generated but all of the music was human generated. That could include inputting chords into BiaB, selecting a style, then adding other tracks via guitar, bass, keys, etc. Or what if all of the instrumentation was done "organically"? Wouldn't these scenarios indicate a a significant amount of human authorship? I would think so but hey, I'm just a guitarist.

I think the group most likely to make money off of AI are lawyers. YMMV


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Originally Posted by MarioD
Originally Posted by pghboemike
The research I done suggests
The U.S. Copyright Office requires that the work must contain a significant amount of human authorship
When registering, you should disclose that the lyrics were generated with the assistance of AI
.......................................

But what if all of the lyrics were AI generated but all of the music was human generated. That could include inputting chords into BiaB, selecting a style, then adding other tracks via guitar, bass, keys, etc. Or what if all of the instrumentation was done "organically"? Wouldn't these scenarios indicate a a significant amount of human authorship? I would think so but hey, I'm just a guitarist.

I think the group most likely to make money off of AI are lawyers. YMMV

The way the US LOC office looks at AI currently is that anything not created by human hands and mind is not eligible for LOC copyright registration and protection. Music or lyrics. Whatever part YOU create is eligible. Just not the machine parts.

No... using BB to put chords and music to a composition is not in the same category. That is a human doing the creating. It is 100% human created. BB doesn't create anything on it's own.

The ones most likely to make money from this AI is the folks who control the subscription websites that are hosting the AI. Suno, Udio, etc.... And the ones holding the rights to the AI..... no one on the user side is making anything that amounts to much.


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Originally Posted by Guitarhacker
Originally Posted by MarioD
Originally Posted by pghboemike
The research I done suggests
The U.S. Copyright Office requires that the work must contain a significant amount of human authorship
When registering, you should disclose that the lyrics were generated with the assistance of AI
.......................................

But what if all of the lyrics were AI generated but all of the music was human generated. That could include inputting chords into BiaB, selecting a style, then adding other tracks via guitar, bass, keys, etc. Or what if all of the instrumentation was done "organically"? Wouldn't these scenarios indicate a a significant amount of human authorship? I would think so but hey, I'm just a guitarist.

I think the group most likely to make money off of AI are lawyers. YMMV

.......................................

No... using BB to put chords and music to a composition is not in the same category. That is a human doing the creating. It is 100% human created. BB doesn't create anything on it's own.
............................................

That is what I meant, i.e. it was created by human hands. After rereading my message I should have made that clearer. Thanx for pointing that out.


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Originally Posted by MarioD
But what if all of the lyrics were AI generated but all of the music was human generated.
Then you could claim legal ownership of the music, but not the lyrics.

The issues with AI and copyright is that AI is not a legal entity (yet) so cannot be granted a copyright. As a result, the work is functionally in the public domain.

Quote
That could include inputting chords into BiaB, selecting a style, then adding other tracks via guitar, bass, keys, etc. Or what if all of the instrumentation was done "organically"? Wouldn't these scenarios indicate a a significant amount of human authorship?
Not as far as the lyrics are concerned.

Think of it this way: imagine there's a public domain song, such as "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star". Anyone can use the melody.

Now, imagine that someone wrote alternate lyrics to the song:

   Twinkle, twinkle, little bat!
   How I wonder what you're at!
   Up above the world you fly,
   Like a teatray in the sky.


The author of the new lyrics owns those new lyrics, and other people can't use the public domain melody with the new lyrics without infringing on their copyright.

But the author does not now own the melody. People can continue using the public domain melody with the public domain words. They are free to write their own new lyrics that use the public domain melody, or new melody to the public domain lyrics.

The only thing that gets copyrighted is the new material that was created.


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Very fuzzy question.

Historically, people used aids to write music, throwing dice for intervals, and so on. Is using AI any different?

After all, with 12 notes, there are only so many combinations, and we've all heard fragments of one melody's song in another.

Lyrics? That's more complex.

From what I've seen, it takes human refinement to make any AI lyrics I've seen useable. Of course, AI keeps getting better and better.

And don't we always get inspiration from all the lyrics we've heard in our life? Don't some people use rhyming dictionaries?

Here's the big question.

In a court of law, how can anyone prove whether the lyrics came from the computer in your skull, or the computer in your laptop? And how can that be demonstrated to a jury of our peers?

I'm not a lyric writer, so this doesn't really apply to me, but it will be very interesting to see how this develops.


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Originally Posted by Notes Norton
Very fuzzy question.

Historically, people used aids to write music, throwing dice for intervals, and so on. Is using AI any different?




Here's the big question.

In a court of law, how can anyone prove whether the lyrics came from the computer in your skull, or the computer in your laptop? And how can that be demonstrated to a jury of our peers?

So yeah, there's a big difference. AI does the composition work for you. No other method does.

The big question: If you have edited the lyrics to get rid of the predictable and goofy rhymes, and the cliches that are often out of place..... And you are claiming that YOU actually wrote it..... there's no current method that I'm aware of that can prove AI wrote it or that you wrote it. All you would have to do is point to any of Lennon McCartney's songs..... Strawberry Fields, I am the Walrus, Yellow Submarine and you have a slam dunk. Of course this doesn't consider any watermarking or saving of the lyrics in the AI servers, that AI is creating and if it is subpoenable into a court. This can be a deep hole if one was interested in exploring all of the "what-ifs" in this topic.


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Question:

Is this AI Lyrics a built-in feature in Band-in-a-Box 2025 of which a user can generate without internet connection?

Or, it is an API to some server that requires users to connect to internet?

From what I see in the bootcamp video, the generation is very fast, takes only seconds, and does not require user to have a Nvidia GPU with lots of VRAM, that's why I assume, the generation happens on the server side, not in the user's computer.

This is bad. It means, a user's prompt input will be uploaded to a remote server, and can be easily seen by PG Music staff.

As a user who regularly composes rap songs with NSFW lyrics, such as gangsters, crimes, guns, sex, drugs, politicians, etc, will PG Music eventually ban me from using this AI feature on their server?

Should I buy Band-in-a-Box 2025? Is this new AI Lyrics feature rapper friendly?


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Originally Posted by Guitarhacker
<...snip...>

So yeah, there's a big difference. AI does the composition work for you. No other method does.

The big question: If you have edited the lyrics to get rid of the predictable and goofy rhymes, and the cliches that are often out of place..... And you are claiming that YOU actually wrote it..... there's no current method that I'm aware of that can prove AI wrote it or that you wrote it. <...>

That's the bigger question.

How many people are going to record a song and put "Chat XYZ" as the author. And if he/she does, who gets the royalties?

And here is another question: If there is no way to prove that AI wrote that song, what is the use of writing the law in the first place?

Also, what about people who hire people to write songs for them, pay them a flat rate for the song, and claim they wrote it?

Or people who get their name on a song as part of a deal, even if they did nothing. When Motown was courting our band, one of the requirements was: For everything we write, a ghostwriter of Motown's choosing would get his/her name on the music, and receive half the songwriting royalties, without adding a single note or word to the composition.

The tools for getting inspiration have grown as our human tool-making abilities have grown. AI is so far, the most advanced too, the one that potentially can replace humans is here.

AI is coming for your job. It's already put photograph models out of work, plus phone operators, tech help people, and so many others. Are songwriters next?

Right now, I'm glad I'm not in the songwriting business, but in the live music business. DJs have already taken a lot of our gigs, but I don't see AI taking even more any time soon.


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None of those questions are important. Likewise, the fantasy speculation about ways to game the system and skirt around the laws is all nonsense.

Why? It's all about the money. We are already at the stage where you will need to prove that a human wrote those lyrics and music before a producer, publisher or record company will give you an advance, license your music or pay royalties. AI can inspire and help but it can't be the creator. "Because I said so." is not proof as many are already finding out.

The ruling from the Librarian of Congress last year allowed the WGA and SAG strikes to be settled. Can't raise money on anything that can't be owned.

Spotify now gets over 250,000 submissions per week. How much is AI generated? Probably most of it. How much of it makes their playlists? Almost none.

The music industry has never wanted to pay the creators. AI has now given them more tools in their fight to keep all the money. Be prepared to show work product.

None of this affects the zillions of loop based tracks being "helped" by apps and AI. No one listens and no one cares and that's ok. The app makers and AI Tool sites will make money from the dreamers, of course — nothing wrong with that, IMO.


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Originally Posted by MusicVillain
Question:

Is this AI Lyrics a built-in feature in Band-in-a-Box 2025 of which a user can generate without internet connection? An internet connection is required to use the 2025 Band-in-a-Box AI Lyrics Generator

Or, it is an API to some server that requires users to connect to internet? An internet connection is required to use the 2025 Band-in-a-Box AI Lyrics Generator

From what I see in the bootcamp video, the generation is very fast, takes only seconds, and does not require user to have a Nvidia GPU with lots of VRAM, that's why I assume, the generation happens on the server side, not in the user's computer.

This is bad. It means, a user's prompt input will be uploaded to a remote server, and can be easily seen by PG Music staff.

As a user who regularly composes rap songs with NSFW lyrics, such as gangsters, crimes, guns, sex, drugs, politicians, etc, will PG Music eventually ban me from using this AI feature on their server?

Should I buy Band-in-a-Box 2025? Is this new AI Lyrics feature rapper friendly? I don't know if the Band-in-a-Box AI Lyrics feature is, or is not, rapper friendly. That is a question you may want to ask PG Music using Chat. May I ask what do you mean when you say NSFW lyrics? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.


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Originally Posted by Mike Halloran
<...snip...>

The music industry has never wanted to pay the creators. AI has now given them more tools in their fight to keep all the money. Be prepared to show work product.

<...>

This is true, not only in the music business, but many of the arts. The artist buys the paint, the canvas, buys the frame, pays for it to be mounted, puts it in the gallery, and the gallery takes 60% of the money.

Many of the one-hit wonders made zero on their million selling records because the label too from their royalties, exaggerated recording, distribution, and promotion fees. Then they controlled the publishing rights, and so much more.

We make art because we love to do it. The "art" brain is often not good at business. The distribution companies (labels, spotify, galleries) have the deck stacked in their favor, and the supply of artists is much, much greater than the demand. So we get the crumbs off the table.

Add to that fact, the audience will pretty much buy whatever the mass media sells them. AI might not be able to write the best songs, but that doesn't matter. When the media hammers the fact that this song is the latest and greatest and all the "in" people are buying it, it will sell.

And you can bet, the AI written song will have a name on the copyright for some human or corporation to rake in the creator's royalties.

This is all my opinion, based on a lifetime in the music business. I could be wrong about it.


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Originally Posted by Notes Norton
And you can bet, the AI written song will have a name on the copyright for some human or corporation to rake in the creator's royalties.

This is all my opinion, based on a lifetime in the music business. I could be wrong about it.

Like I tell my dogs..... "you're not wrong"


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Originally Posted by Notes Norton
This is true, not only in the music business, but many of the arts. The artist buys the paint, the canvas, buys the frame, pays for it to be mounted, puts it in the gallery, and the gallery takes 60% of the money.
It isn't even just the arts, though the arts get a worse deal than many.

Here in the Uk, when I design a product I have to ensure that I can produce if for 1/5 or 1/6 of the retail price.
The government takes 20% as VAT.
The retailier takes 50% of what remains as their margin.
The distributor takes 40-50% of what still remains as their margin.
We're already down to 1/5.
Subtract some more for packaging, shipping, support, warranty, repairs.
I'm now pretty close to 1/6th and I still have to make a profit myself and pay more to the state in tax on that profit.

It doesn't vary a great deal wherever one does business. Shocking, really.


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And you can bet, the AI written song will have a name on the copyright for some human or corporation to rake in the creator's royalties.

I'll take that bet.

Perhaps, someday, AI will become intelligent and be able to show work product but that day is not here.

Here's the thing. If it were to happen, we would not know. Why? If someone were to pull it off and was stupid enough to boast about it, the work would immediately go into the Public Domain. All the services that had paid monies would be able to sue for recovery and they would win.


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Originally Posted by Notes Norton
This is true, not only in the music business, but many of the arts. The artist buys the paint, the canvas, buys the frame, pays for it to be mounted, puts it in the gallery, and the gallery takes 60% of the money.

Gordon said
It isn't even just the arts, though the arts get a worse deal than many.

In general, the product I produce and sell for four dollars gets sold at retail for twenty-five dollars. In the best years, I make an 11% gross profit. In years where hurricanes destroy significant parts of my operations, my gross can drop to zero or below.

The music business is dominated by corporations like the major studios, which are in the business of producing profit for their shareholders. Art is more difficult to sell and involves more risk than some other products. The "Hurricanes" in the music business are the millions invested in art/artists that don't produce any money.

There has obviously been fraud and unfair advantage taken on musicians who were not intelligent enough to prevent it. These sorts of things do not happen solely to musicians. They are common in business relations.
I lose substantial amounts of money each year due to fraud and unfair advantage. My only solution is to increase gross revenues to compensate for the losses. Work harder for less money!

It is not easy to make a lot of money doing anything or even enough to live comfortably.

Copyright is just one of the many issues to solve and is only relevant if you are selling something.

Every business has to deal with the legal issues of copyright, patents, trademarks, and the like.

It is fun to discuss this stuff on the forum, but what is said here is not helpful in a legal sense. It is like going to Facebook to get medical advice...lol

Cheers,

Billy


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Originally Posted by Jim Fogle
That is a question you may want to ask PG Music using Chat. May I ask what do you mean when you say NSFW lyrics? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.
NSFW means "Not Safe For Work".

It's likely that the query is going to ChatGPT with an identifier that it's under the PG Music account. But I doubt PG Music is directly tracking it. Where's the value in that?


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Originally Posted by dcuny
It's likely that the query is going to ChatGPT with an identifier that it's under the PG Music account. But I doubt PG Music is directly tracking it. Where's the value in that?
So, what happens to this "cool new feature" (that we already paid for with our upgrade purchase) when PGM decides the ChatGPT fees are too costly and they simply cancel that account? Or they announce there will be a subscription we must sign up for? I question the wisdom of tying a BIAB feature to a new online service like ChatGPT.

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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!

Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.

Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!

Special offers until December 31st, 2025!

All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!

Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!

Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!

Special offers until December 31st, 2025!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.

Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!

Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.

2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.

XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!

Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.

What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?

XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!

Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!

Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!

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