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Rusty//J3.
fwiw in my first tech job when i was very very young after uni...
regularly us techs would meet down the pubs in london and discuss at length various future technologies...both hardware and software.
long before the net we discussed a lot of future tech like machine intelligence and one day there would be a connected world and various other topics.
just loads of future tech topics.
at uni where lots of us were educated also were lively sessions with futurists and profs.
so yes i'm aware re AI and its potential to disrupt markets etc etc.
thus....NO i dont have my head in the sand...lol.
as i'm married to a canadian lady of course i'm going to be biased towards seeing pg do well in a very competitive market.
which is why i make lots of (hopefully usefull..) feature suggestions re bb and rb.
bottom line i'm very interested as to how pg will incorporate various aspects of AI into their products....haveing worked in the past in tech i'm well aware that a tech company has to continue to innovate.
in fact ive stated such in the past on these very forums.
maybe a seperate thread should be started with the title...
'how would pg users like AI to be incorporated into bb and rb over the short and long term as to features'.
it could be a very interesting exchange of ideas.
in the interim going back to the GUI...maybe more people could post graphics like Roberts nice graphics idea... illustrating how they would like a new gui to look like.
does that make sense ? then people can discuss the various gui approaches from a user perspective ?
you see its new users that concern me.
ie what can be done with the current gui to attract many more new users
to bb (and rb.).
Mario.
i'm sure many users agree with your product suggestions.
and they make perfect sense.
frankly i dont care whether bb or rb whatever.. i just...as ive said in the past dont want to flit tween various apps to do a song....reason being for ages ive flitted tween bb AND rb AND reaper...like a bee...lol....its a time waster when i'm in 'the zone' wanting to get song ideas down fast.
i hope i make some sense.
happiness to all and a great 2025.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/09/25 09:35 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Here's how the Track view could look The Left side is an information/controls for the current track selected. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AamHglw.png) Robert 
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+1
Minor correction:
"Here's how the Track view should look."
Also simple "arm" > record for basic audio recording. Function is there, process is convoluted.
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I say could, because I'm only giving PCM and everyone else, I view of how it could look. ( Think it should look a lot like this!) I may be missing something that would be needed, as you stated: "Arm" Record arm for each track. That's a great catch, and yes it's needed. Please if anyone else see's something missing, speak up! Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/10/25 05:09 PM.
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Here are a bunch:
There should be a big "+" to add new tracks on demand.
Right click > Delete Track > confirm. (3 clicks)
Track zoom should be achievable by "pulling" edge of the track. With option to either zoom in / out dynamically (all tracks), or individual tracks.
Volume node editing in T.View there is a new request for this in wishlist.
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 01/10/25 05:27 PM.
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Robert.
good pics.
re track info on left hand side.
i like a wide waveform view otherwise scrolling sideways lots.,
as such i assume the track info can be hidden ?
the prob i have is some daws on the left hand side...it takes up too much real estate away from the waveforms for my liking.
Robert i tested a bunch of daws recently as i do each year...
i found many 'cluttered'.
the challenge is a GUI that makes the user very productive without looking
too cluttered.
i would love to see a mockup of tracks view with also...
(all hidden and shown at users behest.)
..a lyric track.
..a tempo track
..a markers track maybe ??
..a chords track
(making chord view redundant and saveing user flitting tween various views....drives me nuts in lots of music apps flitting around.))
all above updateable.
you might disagree Robert but the concept i suggest is bb tracks view
become a song creators central 'WORK CENTRE'....
to save lots of flitting around the app.
so a person 'in the song creation zone' can work very fast as the ideas flow.
hope i make sense.
i'm sure some will disagree...lol.
(btw i'm useless at doing graphic layouts so have at it.
note in the past Mcity has done some pretty neat graphics.)
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/10/25 06:24 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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@Rustyspoon# "There should be a big "+" to add new tracks on demand."
"Right click > Delete Track > confirm. (3 clicks)"How about a right click on a mouse, that opens a menu that has the following:Delete selected track Add New Track (In selecting this it ask above or below existing track, then ask how many tracks) "Track zoom should be achievable by "pulling" edge of the track. With option to either zoom in / out dynamically (all tracks), or individual tracks." Yes but the user should first select the tracks then pull the edge."Volume node editing in T.View there is a new request for this in wish-list." (You mean automation) Yes@justanoldmuso "re track info on left hand side.
i like a wide waveform view otherwise scrolling sideways lots.,
as such i assume the track info can be hidden?" Should be an option to hide"i would love to see a mockup of tracks view with also...
(all hidden and shown at users behest.) "People should just use their imagination
It's a lot of work to put these images together (I believe a picture says a 1000 words)"..a lyric track. ..a tempo track ..a markers track maybe ?? ..a chords track (making chord view redundant and saveing user flitting tween various views....drives me nuts in lots of music apps flitting around.))" Should be optional, but also be a seperate floatable windows, that can be placed anywhere (Outside the main interface) you want and stay there."you might disagree Robert but the concept i suggest is bb tracks view
become a song creators central 'WORK CENTRE'....
to save lots of flitting around the app.
so a person 'in the song creation zone' can work very fast as the ideas flow.
hope i make sense."That's where the request for a manageable DUI comes in.
It will allow a user to set up things how he wants and uses BiaB, that also why I think Realband should be combined with BiaB.There are some large company's using accounting software, that company would purchase the base software. And the add ons they they need, for example: Payroll to it, and it becomes part of the program. to start they could make the following as add ons: 1) Ear Training 2) Practice 3) Conductor Some may not use it others may! PGM could do the same with BiaB by having better integration by combining BiaB with RB and offering add ons in the future. Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/10/25 07:12 PM.
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"How about a right click on a mouse, that opens a menu that has the following: Delete selected track Add New Track (In selecting this it ask above or below existing track, then ask how many tracks)" That would work too. "+" is common"Yes but the user should first select the tracks then pull the edge." Not really. Feature is called track auto zoom. Without selecting particular track, "pulling" any edge, zooms all dynamically. Selecting track will make track zoom independently from the rest.
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lets not forget in the discussion new users to music production.
advanced users who have been around the daw block for many years might be used to what is being suggested...and yes they are elegant ideas...but new users often today are sooo very different.
they often have a 'gimme now i dont wanna even read a manual' attitude.
you see it time and again on recording forums.
and it seems often they will drop an app quickly as a result.
in conclusion its very very difficult imho to design a gui that satisfies both seasoned and new users.
i'd like a buck for each time a new user has said to me 'i just wanna make music and not be a tech'. by 'tech' this can include for the new user getting to grips even with even the best designed gui re ease of use.
eg in industry we used to design user screen layouts ad nauseum based on users feedbacks and desires but often the result was the user base couldnt agree and huge amounts of time were wasted.
it was like herding cats.
so Robert the challenge is coming up with gui designs so 'herding cats' syndrome doesnt occur.
fyi user Mcity in the past has taken some of my product suggestions and produced outstanding graphics examples.
one doing exactly what you said ie merging some aspects of bb and rb
ie a new view grid like idea where a user can easily change tempo anywhere and put shots and holds anywhere and silence a particular instrument anywhere and other things etc etc. i loved it.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/11/25 05:07 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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justanoldmuso....
For the world of me I can't understand what are you trying to say, but most importantly, how does it relate to subject. Must be a second language thing.
"in conclusion its very very difficult imho to design a gui that satisfies both seasoned and new users."
Who told you that?? If you are not aware, most people in the "industry", figured that out by 2025.
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As I said Skin, movable modules, custom meus and icon options gives whatever theme/layout the user wants: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29862&filename=roberttw-gui.png)
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"As I said Skin, movable modules, custom meus and icon options gives whatever theme/layout the user wants"
But seems justanoldmuso has difficulty of grasping this concept, while it was said over, and over and over again in different wording in several threads, not just this one.
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...and yes they are elegant ideas...but new users often today are sooo very different.
they often have a 'gimme now i dont wanna even read a manual' attitude.
you see it time and again on recording forums.
and it seems often they will drop an app quickly as a result.
in conclusion its very very difficult imho to design a gui that satisfies both seasoned and new users.
i'd like a buck for each time a new user has said to me 'i just wanna make music and not be a tech'. by 'tech' this can include for the new user getting to grips even with even the best designed gui re ease of use. I find that today's users want to do things the easy way, many if them don't even know anything about music. They want an AI app that they can tell it want they want & "BANG!" it's there. then they tell everyone that they wrote the song. I sorry, that is just their problem and should not stop Biab's Development. PG cannot cater to everyone. Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/11/25 10:19 AM.
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justanoldmuso....
For the world of me I can't understand what are you trying to say, but most importantly, how does it relate to subject. Must be a second language thing.
"in conclusion its very very difficult imho to design a gui that satisfies both seasoned and new users."
Who told you that?? If you are not aware, most people in the "industry", figured that out by 2025. Exactly! This whole GUI thing is not new anymore! Most modern software gets this right and has been since the late 90s! Apple wrote the book on it. And not just in their GUI designs. They literally wrote the book! It is NOT difficult to design a great GUI. You just need to hire great GUI designers. This argument sounds like someone building a house and saying how hard it is to install plumbing and then you find out they've hired a bricklayer to do the plumbing! 
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Yes, bring in a new team of modern GUI and workflow designers to have a clean look at it all.
BIAB 2026, Studio Pro 8, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3)
Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
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gimme a break...jeesh...imho its not trivial to design a gui that works for all users.
before telling me i'm wrong or pilloring me..i respectfully suggest you all come up with a new daw gui design,..then post it on a recording site where loads of studios hang out like gearspace and other sites and see what everyone says.
various end users in various industries always complain about gui designs....
no matter how much thought has gone into the design.
another complexity is coming up with a design that works for us vision impaired also. its particularly difficult when an app has a ton of features.
as to bringing in gui pro designers...great idea but lets see how they design a gui
given all bb's complex features.
imho it will be a challenge for even the best.
as to todays designs imho theres too much 'flash'.
and i'm 'still' left wondering 'how do i do xyz in this app'....
i know i'll get pilloried some more so be it ...but i rather like the rb gui now some adjustments have been done re ease of use but thats just one opinion.
imho when it comes to gui's like many things in life its difficult to arrive at a perfect solution. eg name me the perfect car design...lol....even given there are many pro car designers out there. dont get me started on the new screens in cars.
which people often complain about....and often say to me 'bring back the old rotary dials'. my wife says 'todays cars all look like jelly beans'...lol....'boring'.
om over and out.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/11/25 12:19 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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"before telling me i'm wrong or pilloring me..i respectfully suggest you all come up with a new daw gui design,"
You are wrong for even suggesting this.
We, users are not a part of a company, nor (likely most of us) are GUI designers. It's the company's job to do this stuff. But to user defense, if you have not followed closely, there had been plenty of great ideas offered, both graphical and workflow, mock ups, videos, discussions through the years.... including this very thread.
If company did the right thing and made fully modular and skin-able design, as your buddy musocity said:
" movable modules, custom menus and icon options gives whatever theme/layout the user wants"
Then we could have a discussion about user designed layouts, icons, buttons, colors and fonts. This is not available to us, nor PGM offered a challenge for the best design to be implemented.
--------
I am sorry robertw, that your great thread got derailed with this trivial nonsense. You are on the right path and you are not alone who want a common sense solution for outdated UI.
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@Justanoldmuso You are correct in that it’s not trivial to design a GUI that works for all users.” “..i respectfully suggest you all come up with a new daw gui design,..then post it on a recording site where loads of studios hang out like gearspace and other sites and see what everyone says. “Do you really think this would work?
Your answer to that is below“various end users in various industries always complain about gui designs....
no matter how much thought has gone into the design.” “another complexity is coming up with a design that works for us vision impaired also. its particularly difficult when an app has a ton of features.”Then they need to address it!“as to bringing in gui pro designers...great idea but lets see how they design a gui
given all bb's complex features.
imho it will be a challenge for even the best.”They will need to face that challenge, sooner or lateras to todays designs imho theres too much 'flash'.
Can’t you even see, what is we are trying to do here!
and i'm 'still' left wondering 'how do i do xyz in this app'....With how the program is now, we are addressing it, with ideas that could help!Do you even realize that many people in the world today, will not even use BiaB because of how they say “It’s to bloated and looks very hard to use”Just go on many of the DAW forums and you will see that many of the DAW users are asking for features in their DAW that can do what BiaB is doing. I really think it will not be long before some DAW company does it!You at times, post comments completely supporting some of the GUI changes and sometimes you think it’s a lost cause for us to ask for it. I’m sorry, because I think many of your statements as why not to do it, is not a valid reason. For example:
You said “By changing the Look of BiaB, that will turn away new users”. Actually BiaB is already doing just that, some purchase it and give it a try anyway and give up.
I know, I was one of them. I first got BiaB back in 2017 and was very frustrated for many reasons, mainly the GUI, tried it a few more times upgrading (2019 & 21), hoping some of the things was fixed.
Now a few months back I decided to try it again and became more active on this forum asked a few questions. But decided to once again to upgrade the Base BiaB to 2025, and see if any things have been fix!
Nothing fixed, so as it stands now, if the GUI is not updated and the minor incomplete things are not address, they will lose me as a user. Think of how many others have done this or will do, if these problems go on.
Fortunately, I did find a way to remove the icons (Features I do not use, but are still there and can be access via the menu) and just with that I’m making some progress with BiaB.
Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/11/25 04:03 PM.
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…… You just need to hire great GUI designers. …. Yes, bring in a new team of modern GUI and workflow designers to have a clean look at it all. I do not think New GUI designers is needed. They have just been building on what it started with. They need to come to the realization that the GUI needs to be updated! Robert
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…… You just need to hire great GUI designers. …. Yes, bring in a new team of modern GUI and workflow designers to have a clean look at it all. I do not think New GUI designers is needed. They have just been building on what it started with. They need to come to the realization that the GUI needs to be updated! Robert FWIW I think the entire code needs to be updated, modernized and rewritten. YMMV
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
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If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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