This thread is for suggestions regarding the Tracks view. This is for specific suggestions only, not general comments. There are a few ideas extracted from the main user interface enhancements thread
Rustyspoon: There should be a big "+" to add new tracks on demand.
Right click > Delete Track > confirm. (3 clicks)
Track zoom should be achievable by "pulling" edge of the track. With option to either zoom in / out dynamically (all tracks), or individual tracks.
Volume node editing in T.View there is a new request for this in wishlist.
Rustyspoon:
- Play marker that defines the playback start point.
- Volume node editing (automation)
- Track headers to include a minimum of: ARM - for audio recording FX, PAN
AudioTrack: Tracks Window Scrolling Improvement Would it be possible to add the use of 'Page Up' and 'Page Down' keys (or similar) to achieve scrolling the Tracks window to view other tracks. Currently, the only way to achieve vertical scrolling is to use the narrow scroll bar on the RH side of the form.
Last edited by Andrew - PG Music; 01/21/2511:33 PM.
We have been giving input on the track view for 18 months. 1) Yes, it should support panels (any position) 2) Yes, it should support drill down (by all track types) 3) Yes, the track header should be more complete (look at missing existing mixer pan, arm etc) 4) Yes, it should support more context menus (at track type level) 5) Yes, it should support loop bar in timeline 5) Yes, it should support Editable chords in timeline
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It's kind of surprising to me how areas that got a lot of feedback in the generic UI/UX thread have very little to no input when PGM is asking for much more specific information. By the way I reviewed the five-page original UI/UX thread and there's a lot of good ideas that need to be reiterated in this broken out. High contributors, I'm talking to you A lot of the existing diagrams and videos have many points. Those points need to be broken out into individual points and discussed in detail to get PGM more information on what is expected.
------------------------------------------------------ Probably the easiest change to the track view that would make it more comfortable to use and aligned to other views is what was brought up in the UX thread but needs to be reiterated.
Only show the tracks that are populated by default. So, in most songs you would see 5 tracks taking up the whole work area. How do you add another track type? Easy do it the same way as all Daws on the planet do it. Right mouse click add track by type. For Heaven's sakes get rid of the big scary eyeball idea which is awkward unconventional and cumbersome to use.
Last edited by jpettit; 01/23/2512:39 PM.
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Why 1) It supports the idea of all tracks are equal. 2) It makes it more convenient and easier to communicate when working between one track and another. No need for long loss stepchild black sheep "utility track". 3) It is the standard convention that's used on all DAWs
Naysayers will say: But this will break the way I'm used to seeing the drums on track 3 and the Bass on track 1. You will continue to see Bass on track 1 and Drums on track 3 and Piano on track 2, because that's the way the 11,000 styles will load them no change no difference.
PGM resistance: But this would obsolete many videos. Such is life. Just think how long your videos your new videos will last.
Thru track made sense to put it there 20 years ago. Through track belong down with Master track. AFAIK It can't be used for anything in the track view.
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1) Don't show all tracks by default. Showed tracks that are populated by default. 2) Add button to add tracks as needed. 3) Double Click a specific track to bring up that track type's Editor panel. 4) Show Hide a Linear Editable chord track panel. The Track View becomes a one stop shop.
Last edited by jpettit; 01/24/2504:56 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Ok, if someone disagrees with me, please state specific reasons. I am curious. Why do we need Audio Edit view? Could we just do it on a TrackView level with a Audio Edit Tools in a panel? Tracks View zoom level allows for fine editing.
Suggestion is use a single Track View. Audio Edit button could expand track to full screen view, but it will not limit user to resize to any comfort zoom level. Benefit is less "views" and you can edit tracks side by side.
Shown proposal = ~2-3 lines of code to open existing panel or views as panels. To build in track editing = ~10-20 lines of code X 24 editing options X 3-4 track types. I don't mind ether way. PGM would know better.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
ive been banging that darn drum for some time. i'm tired of it cos i cant edit in context of seeing all of my other tracks. as ive said too many times now... bb track view should be a musos 'work centre' for all audio and midi editing... (like i can largely do in rb tracks view...a reason i like it.)
for example being able to do following..
1..move a note or phrase thats too early or late. 2..normal copy/paste. (for example in rb this is a doddle or another daw....i can even copy/paste many sections of many tracks eg rb and other daws.) AND... 3. heres an example of sometimes i want a piece of genned rt to do say a gentle sweep/pan across the stereo image eg left to centre to right...eg a lead break. cant do that right now....gotta go to a daw.
there are too many other things i would like....but i have to use a daw for. finally i would like to hilite a section of a track...right clik over section and see various edit options i can carry out on the hilited section. ie...its all typical edit features.
i'll stop there as i could type pages and pages of needs and i'm prolly wasting my time needlessly as i know some dont want more daw like features in bb. so i doubt i'll ever see it.
why i need such is i'm weary wasteing too much time and bouncing around tween different music apps and their menus and dialogs and views etc etc. i really pity the user new to music production haveing to learn various different apps. its a darn long learning cycle.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/25/2505:55 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Summary of discussion on Editing in Track view: 1) Editing: People in general agree an easy path to editing would be good. (PGM has already signified to us that this is in the road plan.) 2) How: Use existing edit views. (as an easy solution vs. build the edit into the track events)
Charlie I could not open your pictures on my browser. Oops I see post is gone now. Your point I believe is you can do all the edit in existing views. I agree but suggest and easier path to do so and the ability to compare to other tracks just like the ACW give you the ability to compared to chord view. (in otherwards PGM has already done this in other areas)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Adding new tracks in Track View idea. I think there are very specific track types that can be added as "new tracks" 1) items from MTP 2)Audio-blank 3)MIDI-blank 4)Chord Track
Suggestion/idea: A "plus" icon on the top right. When pressed an intermittent small popup appears (disappears when choice is made) with 4 choices:
Library - opens MTP at RT tab by default. Users are free to roam audition and choose whatever they like from MTP and the track will adjust accordingly. Function wise pretty much to what we have now.
Audio - Will open a blank tracks with "Arm" for basic audio recording.
MIDI - Will open a blank MIDI track
Chord Track - Will generate MIDI chord track. This one is a little tricky as there are two kinds of Chord Tracks with different functions, so I will revisit the suggestion when idea puzzle comes together.
Summary of discussion on Editing in Track view: 1) Editing: People in general agree an easy path to editing would be good. (PGM has already signified to us that this is in the road plan.) 2) How: Use existing edit views. (as an easy solution vs. build the edit into the track events)
Charlie I could not open your pictures on my browser. Oops I see post is gone now. Your point I believe is you can do all the edit in existing views. I agree but suggest and easier path to do so and the ability to compare to other tracks just like the ACW give you the ability to compared to chord view. (in otherwards PGM has already done this in other areas)
I pulled that post because I wasn't sure it aligned with the other suggestions and it was worded more as a comment than a suggestion.
<< Your point I believe is you can do all the edit in existing views. I agree but suggest and easier path to do so and the ability to compare to other tracks just like the ACW give you the ability to compared to chord view. >> You're correct on both statements. Overlaying the AEW on Tracks view retains full functionality of both windows and provides the same ability to compare other tracks the same as the ACW/ Chord view. The tracks sync so copy/paste can be between tracks and the curser can by matched. I'm not following the build the edit into the track events suggestion and why that's easier.
Adding new tracks in Track View idea. I think there are very specific track types that can be added as "new tracks" 1) items from MTP 2)Audio-blank 3)MIDI-blank 4)Chord Track
Suggestion/idea: A "plus" icon on the top right. When pressed an intermittent small popup appears (disappears when choice is made) with 4 choices:
Library - opens MTP at RT tab by default. Users are free to roam audition and choose whatever they like from MTP and the track will adjust accordingly. Function wise pretty much to what we have now.
Audio - Will open a blank tracks with "Arm" for basic audio recording.
MIDI - Will open a blank MIDI track
Chord Track - Will generate MIDI chord track. This one is a little tricky as there are two kinds of Chord Tracks with different functions, so I will revisit the suggestion when idea puzzle comes together.
So, are you agreeing to Point 2 in demonstration above with improvements? It lists all the track types I believe.
Your idea of using the MTP to pick generator types is a good idea as it does not care what the track type is it converts it to the type you selected.
So, maybe just a Audio for recording live (or MTP target track) and a MIDI for recording live (or MTP target track) since MTP changes the type when you generate.
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"So, are you agreeing to Point 2 in demonstration above with improvements?" Of course. What I proposed is an extension to that. Choosing 4 main types: MTP will convert track to any - depending on content selected, no need to pre-define - same as it is now. Audio for recording, MIDI (blank MIDI track) and a Chord Track.
What is difference between MIDI and Chord track. Is not a chord track just a population of a MIDI track?
Let’s talk more details about the fourth thing demonstrated. The Linear Editable Chord track.
It it deserves a healthy conversation. I will start. It should right mouse or double click to open the chord progression window It should be in sync with the timeline track. It should support all context edits such as chord and bar settings.
Last edited by jpettit; 01/25/2504:49 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Chord Track (BIAB term as of 2025) - Set of usually simplified MIDI block chords derived from main chords of your arrangement, with very specific set of rules and options that can be defined in settings. It is mainly used to drive either arpeggio type synths, Midi phrase or sample phrase based VST instruments, which reinterpret those block chords to seamless backing to your composition and commonly utilize "Key Switches" (2025 BIAB addition - preserve range) for variation, intonation and whole bunch of other things.
There are two main "types" of Chord Tracks currently available in BIAB. 1 - activated in settings and pointed to particular track - it always "picks up" any changes you are making to chords automatically 2 - Generated on any track per right click. It takes current arrangement chords and creates MIDI block chords. It will not pickup changes automatically, but is fully editable.
Both types (auto and single use) have separate purposes.
There is more to that, but this is essential purpose of these. Range rules, certain modified simplification, and manually set range preservation makes them very distinct from your average MIDI track.
It is not just a change in image, but a change in design thinking. It becomes like a normal DAW, such as STUDIO ONE, CUBASE BIAB not only has the functions of STUDIO ONE. In addition, BIAB can generate music by inputting chords on the chord track, and can also easily insert various REALTRACKs
Chord Track (BIAB term as of 2025) - Set of usually simplified MIDI block chords derived from main chords of your arrangement, with very specific set of rules and options that can be defined in settings. It is mainly used to drive either arpeggio type synths, Midi phrase or sample phrase based VST instruments, which reinterpret those block chords to seamless backing to your composition and commonly utilize "Key Switches" (2025 BIAB addition - preserve range) for variation, intonation and whole bunch of other things.
There are two main "types" of Chord Tracks currently available in BIAB. 1 - activated in settings and pointed to particular track - it always "picks up" any changes you are making to chords automatically 2 - Generated on any track per right click. It takes current arrangement chords and creates MIDI block chords. It will not pickup changes automatically, but is fully editable.
Both types (auto and single use) have separate purposes.
There is more to that, but this is essential purpose of these. Range rules, certain modified simplification, and manually set range preservation makes them very distinct from your average MIDI track.
Thanks for the education, but my point still remains. It just how you are using the MIDI track.
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If the track is MIDI do not forget to show the channel number & instrument description. Ex. MIDI: CH 1 - Piano
Yes, this would be in the improved Track header.
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To the point Charlie made, doing the editing in the tracks view has several advantages over the audio edit window. Being able to edit in line with the other tracks is vital. Now that the cursor extends through the tracks you can cut, copy, paste and regenerate are just a few things that would be better if you had them at hand when you work. Being able to highlight an area in one track and then see it in relationship to the others is important. Sure you can change tracks in the AEW but it is still not the same.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
To the point Charlie made, doing the editing in the tracks view has several advantages over the audio edit window. Being able to edit in line with the other tracks is vital. Now that the cursor extends through the tracks you can cut, copy, paste and regenerate are just a few things that would be better if you had them at hand when you work. Being able to highlight an area in one track and then see it in relationship to the others is important. Sure you can change tracks in the AEW but it is still not the same.
Currently, curser movement is the same between the two. Both are single track editors. There's no advantage to seeing the full length curser. It's only a view. Tracks View is a multi track view with single track functionality. The UX mock ups and discussions in these threads all say there still will be a need for a AEW panel for precise track editing.
Regeneration is a single track function regardless how many tracks you see. Curser alignment between tracks is a breeze in both Tracks and AEW and is accurate and precise. Highlighting a region for an edit is maintained between all tracks in the AEW and movement is done by selecting the track name either in the AEW dropdown or using the BIAB Mixer. Highlighting a region for an edit is maintained between all tracks in the Tracks View is exactly the same.
Functionality is the same. The results are the same. What's the vital issue?
Obviously you do not do lot of editing in a DAW where you can comp or piece together a track or you would see what we are talking about. Being able to see the precise editing point while it is available in the AEW, it is simply not the same as when you can see it in a tracks view. When the tracks view was first discussed the idea was to have a DAW like environment to work in. Well it is not complete. Bringing the editing tools to the tracks view will complete that process. It will make editing familiar to those who do most of their editing in their DAWs tracks view.
Look i get it that some really like the AEW great there is no reason to remove it. Just bring the editing tools to the tracks view for those who like that method of editing.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
< Look i get it that some really like the AEW great there is no reason to remove it. Just bring the editing tools to the tracks view for those who like that method of editing > I agree.
Look i get it that some really like the AEW great there is no reason to remove it. Just bring the editing tools to the tracks view for those who like that method of editing.
My vote for bringing the editing tools to the tracks view (this should be obvious to anyone) and then removing the audio edit window, since it wouldn't make any sense maintaining both views. If the developers are serious about redesigning and modernizing the GUI they should start by simplifying and removing obsolete / redundant stuff.
What's the difference between these two ? 1, the button in the Tracks window 2. the drop drown in the Audio Edit window
1. The Tracks button allows for non destructive editing though it need more adjustments for fades, drag up/down volume levels rather than typing in with right click, you need to be able to copy sections to a new track to create up the custom drums you need as it's too hard trying to do it on the current drum track by moving or extending/shortening sections. Once a custom drum track is built and you want stems it should build the stems to match the stereo drum track. This works as every section can be extended out to the whole source file, so each section contains the whole drum source file or whole source realtrack file, you can't do this with destructive editing. Also instantly change a guitar track from/to DI<>FX keeping the same sections.
2. The AEW drop down is destructive, this all needs to be non destructive for imported audio files same way the RealTrack edit works and in the Tracks view.
I'm really sorry for having to use Rapid Environment for Audio Production, Engineering, and Recording to show what needs improving, if anyone can show this in another way please do so and I will delete this post.
Biab Tracks View needs better Riff Editing, I can fade and slow down or speed up Hold, if I try stretching in the AEW it will turn it into a wav., it needs to do it non destructively:
You need to automation under each track in Tracks View, they need to obey Snap and have a snap resolution, the nodes at the moment are too big and chunky. You need to be able to split, cut, copy and move midi sections, also having the snap to chord/scale as you may want a riff playing over another chord. The Midi is not working in Riff Edit either.
Just reviewing micro chord exposes some very basic and simple improvements to track view you could make in the next build. 1) the timeline does not have even the most basic time makers. No 1/2 not 1/4. easy to fix. To improve to next level, it should show more time bar segmentation as you zoom in. 1/4 not to zoomed in 1/16th note resolution. 2) the chord section still does not show micro chords. This was reported in 2022. 3) the thru track has no business in the track view. 4) the snap button should be persistent, and snap exist start stop to a bar. More advance would be support the same snap you have in other views which allow setting it opt lower levels. 5) The loop button should be persistent. Its on until the customer turns t off.
These are all easy minor request that have been around for 3 years.
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since bbtv came out ive asked pg to put all typical editing tools in it. im sure pg knew once bbtv was introduced there would be demand for such. ...ive talked to various pg people over the years and hey aint stupid and also pg staff im sure use daw software to create their own songs.
as ive said at various times just give me a right click menu with all the editing features....akin to the right click menu in rb. i agree aew would be redundant.... also chords view with chord entry and updating in bbtv ie a horizontal chord track in bbtv.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/10/2505:25 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
There are lots of great suggestions here, thanks! We're definitely making GUI enhancements a priority this year, so it's great to hear all of these suggestions.
************************* Tobin Frank (he/him) PG Music Inc.
Top points according to AI: Improvement of Track View Functionality and Customizable Track Headers:
1) Enhanced Track Headers: Users suggest including controls for ARM (audio recording), FX, and PAN directly in the track headers for quick access and comprehensive track management.
Editable Volume Nodes: Allowing users to edit volume nodes directly in the Track View for more intuitive volume automation.
Play Marker: Adding a play marker to define the playback start point within the Track View.
Track Zoom: Enabling track zoom by pulling the edge of the track for more precise editing control.
2) Scrolling Improvements:
Page Up/Page Down Keys: Adding functionality for scrolling through tracks using Page Up and Page Down keys, enhancing navigation within the Track View.
3) Editable Chords in Timeline:
Direct Chord Editing: Supporting editable chords directly in the timeline, enabling users to edit chords more efficiently within the Track View.
4) Simplifying the User Interface (UI):
Alignment with Standard DAWs: Making the interface cleaner and more intuitive by removing redundant features and ensuring that only populated tracks are shown by default.
5) Integrated Editing Tools:
Unified Track Editing: Integrating editing tools such as cut, copy, paste, and move audio or MIDI sections directly within the Track View, making it the central hub for all editing activities.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Wouldn't it be useful to see all the chords used in the tracks view for BIAB ? Is there a setting for this? Entering chords there too in combination with the Chords window ?
Just wanted to place this here as a reminder for the re-implementation of the "Edit Phrases and Loops" button functionality as noted in that thread. Thanks.
Regards, Shawn
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