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Good question.
I think you are going to get two to three camps here.
SAVE In File menu for all apps
1) I personally learn 3 decades ago that Ctr + S saves so I do not need to waste space with save button.
2) Others may have been hitting your save button for years.
OPEN In File menu for all apps
1) Many DAWs have a dedicated song browser with tabs. PGM has the Song Tab. 80% of the time I use the OS file browser to go the directories in my organization so no button for me.
2) Others have used your Song Browser.
So, I would vote for let the user decide what buttons are in the tool bar.
You can default you what you have but let others remove them. I have to disagree here with #1. I'm at the moment helping out in some beginners' courses for computers and newcomers will not be familiar with those shortcuts, so I think the items must be on the menu. Those of us who work with multiple different operating systems can find that useful, too. Whilst most applications have adopted the Microsoft or MS-like shortcuts, some have shortcut systems that differ (usually from historic incompatibility). I would certainly have: New New from template Open Open Recent... Save Save As... Import Export Close Quit Possibly, though these could be Exports: Print preview Print Open and saves would be BiaB-native formats. Import and Export for other formats, with a sub-menu and/or a dialog for the format. I don't disagree with the concept of letting the user decide, but I do think a conventional list is the right default. I don't know what degree of disruption user-configurability would cause to development, though I do know that it's already doable with at least some menus.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I believe I predicted there will be at least three camps.  Sure, for the menu. Of the dozens of programs I use on a daily basis, none have a Save button except BB. Although popular in the 90s when GUIs started, we currently have no option other than to ignore.
Last edited by jpettit; 02/12/25 03:43 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, sorry, but put me in the camp of wanting and using a Save button. Is that door number 1, 2, or 3?
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My camp! Where you can make all 4 "Save buttons" if you really - really want to  Also in my camp you would be able to save a triple key shortcut(s) of your choice as a quick access button.
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I believe I predicted there will be at least three camps. Sure, for the menu. Of the dozens of programs I use on a daily basis, none have a Save button except BB. Although popular in the 90s when GUIs started, we currently have no option other than to ignore. You did, though I believe it was for the menu, not for buttons. I was just stating my view. The other part is curious ... I too use dozens of applications and a great many of them do have a save button, though I just looked through several music-related applications to find that only one of those did, whilst most office tools had one.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I believe I predicted there will be at least three camps. Sure, for the menu. Of the dozens of programs I use on a daily basis, none have a Save button except BB. Although popular in the 90s when GUIs started, we currently have no option other than to ignore. You did, though I believe it was for the menu, not for buttons. I was just stating my view. The other part is curious ... I too use dozens of applications and a great many of them do have a save button, though I just looked through several music-related applications to find that only one of those did, whilst most office tools had one. Yes, I understand, and I guess the open buttons and recent lists have been moved to the opening screens, which I do use in Studio One, Cakewalk, Adobe Suite, Office 365 apps. I can't think of a save button. To be honest I use a close with the dirty bit set so your flagged to make the choice to save on a shut down. Anyway a common solution for all inputs so far would be user configurable buttons with the BB classics as a theme and more minimal themes available and savable. I use a custom tool bar with only Muli Picker Library and Track View/Chord view toggle on it 80% of the time. I also add Audio Edit for envelops and Piano Roll buttons for Playable RTs.
Last edited by jpettit; 02/12/25 06:55 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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I agree that the New, Open, Save and Save-As buttons that are sometimes on the toolbar are mostly just wasted real estate, particularly when the icons are a 5-1/4 floppy or a hard drive with an arrow. These days, many young people have seen neither.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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all i ask...and i know its a challenge for any developer to put out a feature rich app like bb...is...please....make sure the bb new gui doesnt end up cluttered like some music apps ive tried recently.
for example i like reaps v2 because its not cluttered imho.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/13/25 06:02 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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The Freeze and Simple track buttons presently list individual legacy track and all tracks for selection but does not list utility tracks. Please add individual utility tracks to the selection lists. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30307&filename=Clipboard01.jpg) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30308&filename=Clipboard02.jpg)
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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if the definition of the Multi picker Library is:
A "Library of sounds" to build a song with, then the tabs:
1- Styles
2- Real Tracks
3- Real Drums
4) MIDI Super Tracks
5) MIDI Tracks
6) MIDI Soloist
7) Melodist
8) User Tracks
9) Loops
10) MIDI Patches
meet that definition and make a strong browser to sounds.
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SUGGESTION 1: Chord Progression and Chord Variation are "Reference Tools" that would be fit in a horizontal panel associated with the Chord View.
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SUGGESTION 2: Lyrics tab is a Tool more associated with a tool to build dedicated Phrased based Lyrics track in the Track view, or a dedicated Note based Lyrics Track in the Piano Roll and Notation views.
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SUGGESTION 3: Titles tab is a Tool directly associated to the Style Tab workflow and would fit better as a button in the Styles tab.
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SUGGESTION 4: Songs tab should be an "Opening Panel" that brings you into a song like many creative apps on the market.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, not arguing with the points you're making but I'm having trouble understanding how it applies to "Make Freeze & Simple Icons Work With Utility Tracks".
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Jim, I think, because you changed "sub" thread subject from main ( Specific suggestions - Toolbars and layout) to "Make Freeze & Simple Icons Work With Utility Tracks", it seems Jeff is replying to you. I think he is replying to main thread.
Jeff +1000 on suggestions on layout sorting.
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 02/23/25 05:56 PM.
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We need dedicated Solo and Mute buttons at VST3 window so it does these without going to the mixer. This is a standard everywhere else.
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Jeff, not arguing with the points you're making but I'm having trouble understanding how it applies to "Make Freeze & Simple Icons Work With Utility Tracks". It has nothing to do about that post. It is part of the OP. All the other pinned request lists name specific views. This is the only pinned list that can cover other topics like the multi Library. The Post actually has four distinct suggestions in it.
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Jeff and RustySpoon#,
Thanks for both of your responses.
I changed the heading of my post from the thread's default title to reflect the subject of my improvement suggestion. That way I can look at my posts and from the titles know I'm not duplicating suggestions.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Yes, I think editing the OP title and all further posts inherit the edit title, is a bug in the forum software. Ironically, I first saw it with Misha edited the title (F5) about a month ago.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Some confusions occur by using the quick-reply area rather then explicitly replying to a post by using the [Reply] or [Quote] buttons. The quick-reply inherits from the original post ... I sometimes think it would be better if the quick-reply area wasn't there.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Another idea for improve experience. I was thinking about this at the beginning of this effort and never got around to bringing it up. The Keyboard/Guitar view as a floating window, and buried in the mixer tabs (never used it), would seem more natural and more integrated into the process if it was a docked horizontal panel at the bottom of the screen.. I am seeing this in several other musical apps. This has at least four advantages: 1) More room for more keys and streamlines the usage. 2) Can be used as an MIDI input device with on screen chords recognition adding to workflow. 3) Can be used across many of the views as an educational/FYI view. 4) Eliminates the need for the 'piano per track view in the mixer' and enhances the floating keyboard to process input/recognition. I know you can float a window at the bottom, but this integrates it more with chord input/recognition and output/playback workflow. This does not take away the option to un-dock it. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30349&filename=BIAB keyboard.jpg) (COMMENT: PGM has historically made an easier floating window instead of engineering a docked panel approach. A docked panel approach would greatly modernize the GUI, with relatively a small amount of effort.)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Although not a specific suggestion but I though this article by Kanaryi sounds would apply here. It shows ideas on what works and what doesn't work as it applies to GUIs. https://karanyisounds.com/crafting-...;mc_cid=d7c64b2f1f&mc_eid=44d89f9b4c
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This is very valuable information, Mario. Critical design is one of the most important steps with user interface development.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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