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I was asked for my approach to songwriting and wrote the following. Others might find it helpful...

Notating the Melody

If you are a singer then your dilemma re songwriting is the same as mine and probably for the same reason - we are primarily singers and think as such rather than instrumentalists and thinking as such. It is easy for us to write the lyrics and think of a good melody - arranging is our problem. To get around this, I use Melodyne. The programme does take some learning but you can also get a training video for it. This enables me to record a vocal melody and then use the programme to convert the melody into MIDI notation.

Remember to use a metronome or simple drum pattern to record the vocals against, this will help with the timing and placement of notes. Nothing fancy, just a 3 time or 4 time beat. Set it to start with at 120bpm as this is the median of the RI tempos. You can always speed it up or slow it down a little but stay, if possible, within the 100bpm to 140bpm range so that you will be able to make good use of the RIs. There is a reason why PG maps everything to 120bpm and the key of C - not only is it mid-range tempo it is also the easiest key.

Arranging

Once the notation is down, it is very easy to arrange. Import it into BIAB and this will tell you what key your notation is in. A good clue to the melody key though is usually the most common note in the series and / or the final note of the song. Next step, transpose it to the key of C (no incidentals to worry about) which makes it very easy to see the chords to arrange it to. You can cover all the notes using 3 chords (I, IV and V7) - in the key of C, these are C, F and G7. Every note in the scale is covered with these. Look for the 'key' notes, these are the longer ones or the ones that come on the beat and are most often the first and third beats in a 4/4 bar (in a 3/4 song it is even easier because you just need to look at the first note in each bar).

In C, the I will match against C, E and G, the IV will match against F, A and C, the V7 will match against G, B, D and F. The V7 will also resolve nicely back to the I. Now that gives us every note...

C - I / IV
D - V7
E - I
F - IV / V7
G - V7 / I
A - IV
B - V7

Ok. This is simply a 3 chord trick but you can spice it up by using substitution chords. In the key of C, D can be substituted with a iim and A with a vim (i.e. the IV chord can be substituted with either iim / vim). If you want fancier chords, you can always add the extensions (2, 9, 11, 13, etc) or flatten a note in the chord to cover something in the melody where the chord you really want to use (because of a progression such as I-vi-ii-V7-I) will clash, such as an augmented chord or a b5... These extra chords are just added for flavour. Remember, EVERY song can be boiled down to the simple I, IV and V7 chords. Most probably, though not always your song will start and end on the I. Remember the Beatles? They wrote an entire song using just one single chord, which was of course the same as the key (G, if I remember right). Once you have the melody, of course, you can always use the Re-Harmonist feature in BIAB to generate a chordal progression for you but if you follow my outline above, you won't go far wrong. I mainly use the Re-Harmonist if I want to find an alternative progression in a part of a song if I am trying to avoid using a certain chord (I can play every chord in the book but some of them are preferable to others for ease of playing and for sound properties). Once you have this, you can then use the Vocal Wizard to set it to the right key for your voice (and for our area, that is primarily either C, G, D, A or E). Believe me, the above may seem very simple but it really is! About 15 or so years ago, I analysed in depth note-for-note over 250 all-time hit songs from ABBA to ZZ Top to work out how they did it and created a Decision Support System that enabled me to spot the patterns and how they were arrived at. It took a couple of months and the above was the outcome. It works.

Selecting Instrumentation

Having done this, select the instruments you would like to have in your line-up and can imagine being played by real musicians in a band you put together and then use the RIs to reflect this. The rest is down to your ears and the mixing and mastering techniques as very simply outlined by Ray in his tutorial on RB. Don't go creating arrangements with different instruments each time - we may have the ability to do this with RB but would we in real life? We can't afford to tour a whole orchestra with us just because we want an alto sax solo or a bassoon for one single number in a repertoire of 20 songs or so! Use your ears and your brain / imagination!

Selecting a Style

As to Style selection, I start with something very simple and only one instrument (usually a strumming acoustic guitar), not even drums. I want people to be able to play this at home for themselves and therefore it is very important to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). I want to walk along a beach one day or take an underground train and see a teenager playing and singing my songs on a guitar! Once I have this, I will add a second instrument (this used to be a bass but now that my g/f wants to play with me, it is an acoustic piano). These are my two main instruments - bass, rhythm and fills can be achieved with these two instruments alone (think James Blunt).

For recording purposes, I will then add drums, bass (I have an e-bass, so that is what I go for as I know I have one) and possibly, though not always, a lead guitar / sax. I will use these instruments for the backing tracks and can always have them recorded for use in live performance (still only 2 real musicians, myself and my g/f). The choice of instruments can be varied - I have an acoustic guitar, a strat clone and a jazz guitar so I have a choice of 3 different guitar sounds, a jazz e-bass and keyboards so I know I have the instruments to be able to play this line up by myself if need be.

Recording & Performance

So now we have the music, add a good quality mic for recording and we can produce great songs. Add a good PA system and you are ready for gigs.

Additional Tips

Another tip is to spend as much time as possible hanging out around the forum - on all the boards. So much can be picked up there about all sorts of things from gigs to performance techniques to tricks with the software and stored away in memory for possible future use.

HTH

Thanks Sam, my wife (singer and songwriter) and I (not a singer but songwriter) have been working of several Gospel songs. I might hear or see a phrase on a church sign and that will be the prompt to find the rest of the story. I seems that most often it's a chorus phrase or hook that I then have to find the story to fit and that is difficult, but enjoyable.
I read once that every story can be broken down into some one coming into town or leaving town, It does seem to fit.
I enjoy listening to the words that Loreena McKennitt uses and the simple chords that can be profound in many of her songs such as "Night Ride Across The Caucasus"
My biggest problem is that I am drawn to the melody and have a hard time figuring out how the instruments fill into there parts. That's where BIAB has help me hear what else can go on.
It seem that in certain cultures from Irish to Bluegrass to Middle Eastern that there is a sharing of the musical lead but it almost seems the same simple chord pattern that each instrument takes a crack at. I can see the need to give the singer a rest or some breathing room and I can see the need for each musician to shine as well.
When you did your survey of the music, did you ever chart the songs for note or chord progressions for the length of time for a rise or fall, something like how the stock market charts look or a mountain range. If you've heard the Ventures "Slaughter on 5TH Ave", that sorta what I'm talking about. I may have said what you just said but differently.
I'd like to hear some other thoughts on how or what you hear. I'm going to try the I IV V7 and see how this compares to what we have been writing.
Wyndham

Hi Paul

Thanks for the input. I did write a long reply to this originally but fell foul of the 'time limitations'.

Ideas can come from all sorts of places and at all sorts of times, often unexpected. If I am 'out & about', I will make a note of it on my mobile phone. I have found my songs in extremely unusual places. On one occasion, I wrote a song while watching an interview with Meatloaf on TV and about 75-80% of the words are his, though not taken in one nor ever said as a song. On another occasion, I saw a film in the cinema, came home and wrote the entire song, including melody, in about 5 minutes flat. Another song I wrote (probably my g/f's favourite) was written when I suddenly found a 19th century character invented by Oscar Wilde in my head - it has a very unexpected twist to it and actually turns out to be a self-portrait (although I didn't realise that until I first performed it in front of friends)! On reflection, it would appear that a lot of my songs could be taken as being self-reflective but then what artist doesn't reflect themselves in their work in some way or another? The more philosophical the lyrics, the more reflective the song appears to be.

I also asked a good friend of mine here where he originally got the idea for one of his songs 'Its A F*cking Bad Day'. His answer? He was on his way to a gig, it was extremely windy and he was wearing a hat when he thought to himself "its a f*cking bad day to be wearing this hat". By the end of the evening he had the whole song.

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When you did your survey of the music, did you ever chart the songs for note or chord progressions for the length of time for a rise or fall, something like how the stock market charts look or a mountain range. If you've heard the Ventures "Slaughter on 5TH Ave", that sorta what I'm talking about. I may have said what you just said but differently.

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Yes and no. I analysed things like which notes appear and how often, which chords those notes are mapped against, what variations (extensions, inversions, etc) of those chords appear and how often, where a song modulates to if at all, opening notes, closing notes, and so on. Did I make a graph of those? No. I made a chart. If, OTOH, you mean did I create a linear display of the melodic notation per se, no. You can see that from the lead sheet anyway and I don't think there was any software around at that time that would have helped me do that in any case.

With regard to 'Slaughter on Tenth Avenue' (sorry to have to correct you there), this was an instrumental somewhat similar to the work of The Shadows. As I pointed out at the start of this thread:

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If you are a singer then your dilemma re songwriting is the same as mine and probably for the same reason - we are primarily singers and think as such rather than instrumentalists and thinking as such. It is easy for us to write the lyrics and think of a good melody - arranging is our problem.

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This means this article is meant primarily for singer songwriters and you can't be writing from the perspective of a singer if there are no lyrics!

Of course, an instrumental approach is somewhat different. You still need to find those hooks and repeated phrases and the focus is on creating memorable melodies. If I were to use the melody first approach (which I wouldn't as I always start with the lyrics), then I would start with the Pentatonic scales, still sticking to the mnemonic KISS. In the case of 'Slaughter on Tenth Avenue', I would think it was the Pentatonic Major (i.e. I, II, III, V and VI, in the key of C this would be C, D, E, G and A) but I could be wrong.

FWIW, I gave myself an exercise back in January to try and write a song with the melody first and it took me about 6 weeks. I finally managed it but I won't do it again as I find that my lyrics actually suggest the melody and rhythm to me, so I find it much easier if I work in that way. To my mind, working the melody first route is much harder unless the tune is meant to be an instrumental.

HTH

Sam. I always get the 5th and 10th ave mixed up pon that song the way you have me mixed up with Paul????, no matter Wyndham's my first name, my mothers maiden name. If you run into a school age friend of mine, a fellow named Paul Harnick in Vienna , that would be unnerving.
I'm coming at music latter in life and bas-acwards at that. Had I taken the music lessons early as a child, I would know better than to be trapped into the Siren's song of music. Now I'm playing catch-up but it's great.
I just finished our first backing track that we used this Sunday, I need to redo her vocals as the live performance was good but the recording not as good.
I hope to post soon so others will get a chance to hear what we are working on.
I downloaded a demo of Melodyne and just starting to learn the interface, it's a bit different than other windows software. I recorded a small clip of my wife singing a cappella and noticed that her voice is on pitch and consistent but in the lower half of the pitch box for each note referenced in Melodyne, if I use correct pitch feature, she doesn't sound a well.
There's an instrumental by the Vangelis called "Hymn" That I can almost taste the words for. That might be my exercise some time in the near future, BTW has someone already written words for it? Latter, Wyndham

OMG! I am SO sorry Wyndham, I thought you were 'pwarren'. My bad...

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If you run into a school age friend of mine, a fellow named Paul Harnick in Vienna , that would be unnerving.

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Would it be unnerving for me too?

As to coming to music later in life - at least you have found your way there! Many of the greatest have only found their way to music late in life but have found it well worth the time invested. I could give you a couple of quotations to that ilk but none spring to mind at the moment

Melodyne is a great tool. You have to be careful what you wish for though... Sounds like your wife is a wonderful singer. Value her voice!

Has anybody written words to 'Hymn'? Not to my knowledge but then I don't know everything So, write them! I am currently in the process of adding a classical poem to a traditional Irish folk song. Well, it is original!

Thanks, Wyndham. I'm happy you are not offended. I would love to hear your wife sing. Can you get her to demo for me?

To quote one of my own songs...

Music & Lyrics

Music and lyrics, melody and text
Which comes first? And which comes next?
Sometimes the inspiration may take a little time
Sometimes the inspiration may take a little wine

To write a song for a Pop Star like Britney Spears
It's not the singer you think about, it's what the audience will hear
From obscurity to stardom, with sincerity to fame
For a singer and a songwriter, the story's just the same

To write a song or sing for you will always be my dream
The message would be so clear and true, your honour I esteem
Whether love song or ballad, in melody and rhyme
I'll write my song and serenade you if you'll only give me time

If you'll only give me time

If you'll only give me

If you'll only give

If you'll only

Give me time

This is the one I wrote after having seen the film of the same name starring Hugh Grant. Yes, I know there was a theme song in the film but it was calling out for a song with the same title. This is it. Hope you like it! As to hearing it, you will in due course but, as the last line goes, "Give me time". It is a song about songwriting and, yes, it is ultimately self-reflective but that is not the way I wrote it. I wrote it for the film but see what I mean? Man! I think they would have loved to use this for the film. Too late.

BTW, if anybody uses this without permission, I WILL KILL THEM! Remember, you read it here first...