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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,817
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,817 |
Tiger, I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts on this important issue. Personally I would make rather listen to someone who speaks English rather than an attorney who speaks legalese. Your answer is much more practical. I would also add that there is a huge difference between practical real world advice and theoretical "what could happen if' advice you get from an attorney. I've seen people waste so much money on attorneys needlessly, typically motivated by fear. A couple problems: 1. Much of Tiger's information is wrong. FYI, I was also told by Ember at PG Music that there is no copyright issue. So just because it's not clearly mentioned in the licensing agreement, that fact that multiple employees over probably a long period of time are making this claim does weigh in on this importantly. PG music will ultimately be the one to be sued more likely, than any individual making music. 2. That's not quite right either — as you were informed in the other thread. When you are told something, it's a good idea not to make things up. You are not, however, permitted to claim the demo songs in your copyright. Band-in-a-Box (BIAB) demo songs are copyrighted by PG Music Inc., meaning you cannot claim copyright to them or use them commercially without permission.
Copyright Ownership:
PG Music Inc. owns the copyright to the demo songs and RealTracks/RealStyles within Band-in-a-Box.
No Permission to Claim Copyright:
You cannot claim copyright to the demo songs, even if you've used them as a starting point for your own compositions.
Commercial Use Restrictions:
Using the demo songs commercially (e.g., selling them, using them in a commercial project) without permission from PG Music Inc. is a copyright violation.
Copyright Protection:
Even unreleased music is protected by copyright.
Seeking Permission:
If you wish to use a demo song or RealTracks/RealStyles in a commercial context, you must obtain permission from PG Music Inc. As cool as many of them are, those cannot be registered by you.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Songwriting
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591 |
I don't know if this is a valid workaround, but when I have been faced with a similar dilemma, I've used the track as create in BB, taken credit, and assigned it Creative Commons Fair Use (Give credit.) A good studio musician can mimic the Real Track in such as way as to legitimize claim to originality.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,484
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,484 |
I hope I'm stating the obvious here, but I suspect not and I think there may be some misunderstanding and consequential confusion, so...
Songs created by you using BiaB RealTracks, RealDrums and/or MIDI are your creations and may be copyrighted and released by you.
The Demo Songs that PG Music use to give an example of how the RealTracks and RealDrums may sound when in use, were created by and are copyright of PG Music. You may not release them as your own work, even in modified form.
I believe the musicians that play the content of RealTracks and ReadDrums sign away their copyright of the samples expressly so that PG Music customers will be able to use them as above. If they didn't or wouldn't, PGM's business model would be very different.
PGM also expressly ask that you do not credit those musicians on your work. That feels odd, but I think there are several good reasons for it.
Mike, I you believe I'm mistaken, I'm sure you'll say.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,790
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,790 |
It is always advisable to seek the advice of a lawyer who deals with the music industry to answer any type of legal questions.
Having said that, myself and thousands of other people have published songs that were created using BIAB software. As far as I know there have been no lawsuits as a result of those actions.
The issues of copyright are about as complex as it gets and no forum has the expertise to guarantee all your questions will be answered correctly.
As with most things, nothing normally happens unless there is money involved. Make a song with BIAB that generates millions in revenue and things could get pretty complicated.
Billy THIS! This right there is your answer. Full stop. My practical advice is just do your thing and enjoy yourself! Statistically speaking, you are unlikely to ever generate enough money with your songs to get the attention of corporations and their lawyers. If you happen to get lucky enough to generate big money you can then afford lawyers to help you figure out how to hang onto it!
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,817
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,817 |
I don't know if this is a valid workaround, but when I have been faced with a similar dilemma, I've used the track as create in BB, taken credit, and assigned it Creative Commons Fair Use (Give credit.) ... Those tracks belong to someone else; you cannot assign rights to anyone. Using tracks as a starting point and modifying them in BIAB is not the same—it's what we are expected to do—but using them as-is requires written permission as I have already quoted. A good studio musician can mimic the Real Track in such as way as to legitimize claim to originality. That's not the same as using the tracks as-is. Once again: If you wish to use a demo song or RealTracks/RealStyles in a commercial context, you must obtain permission from PG Music Inc. Their words, not mine. Let's be clear, I will point to or quote licenses or US Copyright law, sometimes the Berne Convention. I never, ever, ever give my opinion in threads like these—same with my clients. "I believe..., I think..., IMO..." Nope, I don't go there. Neither will I post what I do or or don't agree with. If you need a legal opinion, get an IP attorney. I advise my clients to do the same. I worked in Licensing in Silicon Valley for many years and am retired from the legal dept. of a billion$ music entity; occasionally work for another. Most of my private practice consists of answering questions along the lines of, "Can we do…?" Yes, here's the clause in (this license) that gives you permission; here's the form you have to file to report it or No, you need this license; I'll make the call for you. Most of the rest is fighting takedown notices by stating that (…) was written in 1644 with words by (someone who died in) 1890 and the song is in the Public Domain — that or, attached is the sync license from (actual publisher) granting permissions (I probably negotiated it). If it comes to a fight and I have to write, "The reason I believe..." I have to stop. Attorneys get to have beliefs and opinions on legal matters, not I.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
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