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Mac and pc...any new tech rumours ??
1..MAC...anyone heard any rumours about further M series
processors...ie M5 and M6 etc ?
2..PC....now that microsoft are building asio into the OS
anyone heard of any advances re on board pc sound chips ??
i'm sorta wondering if the need for buying a usb interface
will go away...ie on board could be a interface industry disruptor.
all that would be needed would be a connector on the pc that would
be connected to a break out box to which mics and instruments
could be connected ??
btw talking of PC...on gearspace.com a MS product guy Pete Brown
(Psychlist1972 ?) has various interesting posts on what MS
is doing in the audio realm. very very knowledgeable.
(has his own studio.) his posts are very interesting.
gonna be very interesting times re mac and pc.
if anyone has info or insights on the above or interesting
tech developments for studios that might be on the
horizon...please comment etc etc.
happiness.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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1..MAC...anyone heard any rumours about further M series
processors...ie M5 and M6 etc ? No, nothing yet. 2..PC....now that microsoft are building asio into the OS
anyone heard of any advances re on board pc sound chips ?? No, nothing yet.
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It's all happening in IoT right now. Devices get power from the environment or use, like a controller that recharges the battery every time you push a key So it gets power from you. Rumor is that eventually you become 'one' with the controller because if you don't use it regularly it dies, but if you use it all the time it becomes your friend for life.  //disclaimer - the above is sarcasm please to do share on your social media
Last edited by rharv; 03/13/25 04:59 AM.
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No, I haven’t seen any chatter on these subjects.
About onboard PC sound chips, I have to wonder what the incentive would be to improve them. The RealTec chips play back audio files just fine for the masses. Anything an audio professional would use is outside the box.
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Aside from Thunderbolt 5, the M3 Ultra and M4 Max Studios shipping next month? Nah…
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ok ive spent some time googling mac m 5...
theres some interesting info out there.
maybe m5 macs later this year ??...dunno.
if apple follow the biz model for future macs like the iphones...
im gonna be curious how far they can take each new generation of the m series....whch begs the question how will amd and intel
respond ? yummy fun tech times...lol.
meanwhile im rooting for the cheap raspberry pi....lol.
if and when the pi gets another cpu upgrade...could be interesting.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/13/25 12:19 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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1..MAC...anyone heard any rumours about further M series
processors...ie M5 and M6 etc ? Apple tends to release new products only once a year. M4 released in October, that's probably when M5 will be released. Entirely speculation. 2..PC....now that microsoft are building asio into the OS That's news to me, and doesn't make any sense. ASIO only exists as a way of bypassing Windows. Rumor is that eventually you become 'one' with the controller because if you don't use it regularly it dies, but if you use it all the time it becomes your friend for life. I'm looking forward to having my own real Weighted Companion Cube. About onboard PC sound chips, I have to wonder what the incentive would be to improve them. The RealTec chips play back audio files just fine for the masses. Anything an audio professional would use is outside the box. Exactly. Onboard sound chips are always going to shoot for the bottom shelf. Thankfully bottom shelf these days is pretty decent, but I don't think it'll ever be more than that since that requires more expensive supporting circuitry (op amps, capacitors, etc) rather than just a single chip.
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Simon. re asio... maybe ive miread the announcement then. heres one link i found... https://midi.org/microsofts-major-moves-to-make-making-music-on-windows-easiernote also the guitarist demo at above link. the audio aspects are a ways down below midi details. from the ms devblog. ms have announced a new low latency driver for win on arm...followed by x86 intel is my understanding. they also talk about just plugging in. the way it reads to me is they are trying to do plug n play of an interface like apple core audio....?? maybe ive misunderstood. if im wrong why are they working on a new low latency driver ? now ya got me confused...lol. so will a user have to still worry installing a interface driver rather than useing the built in ms driver ....?? maybe im getting daft as i age...lol. what is your viewpoint on this new win driver ?? happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/13/25 03:33 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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2..PC....now that microsoft are building asio into the OS That's news to me, and doesn't make any sense. ASIO only exists as a way of bypassing Windows. It didn't make sense to me either, though I didn't read through the detail. More likely I think is that MS are improving the drivers within Windows to make ASIO 'unnecessary', at least with class-compliant devices, much as Linux and I believe MacOS have done for a long time.. How well that'll work out is another matter. We'll see I guess.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 03/13/25 04:09 PM.
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I think they're trying to say that they've made their own generic ASIO driver that should work with most USB audio devices, but I'm not certain. In the article they also mentioned that Focusrite and Steinberg/Yamaha are making ARM native ASIO drivers for their devices - which is cool because that's what I have.
WaveRT is Microsoft's new audio system. From a quick web search, it seems like most people still feel that ASIO performs better - not to mention that most DAWs don't support it.
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 03/13/25 05:02 PM.
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Simon.
a question...why would i use a daw on arm versus a daw on amd or intel....advantages ? im kinda at a happy place currently with my new amd mini pc. and audient .
im kinda chuffed that arm was developed originally at cambridge uni being uk born. havent really kept up with arm tech
as to that new ms native driver i think its for plug n play without worrying bout other drivers. i just hope its very !ow latency.
btw do you see any time rb might run on mac m4 say natively ??
rb is coming along really well.
best
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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btw do you see any time rb might run on mac m4 say natively ?? The decision was made long ago not to port RB to the Mac. The given reason is that, because GarageBand is free, RB for the Mac is redundant. It will be nice if BIAB becomes AS Native in 2025. We’ve not been given any heads up on this but it has been five years since the M1 was released.
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Mike. that mac m4 mini is one heck of a beast. but so is this to be fair...plus various flexibilities viz memory and upgrades...not a slouch...high single thread score... (various vids on you tube.) https://www.amazon.com/GEEKOM-GT1-U9-185H-Processor-Computers/dp/B0DG7WDW75?th=1there are various makers of powerfull mini pc's like... ..beelink ..GMKtec ..minisforum etc etc its a pity about rb native on mac beause rb does things gband doesnt. just my 2 cents. happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/16/25 12:52 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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a question...why would i use a daw on arm versus a daw on amd or intel....advantages ? im kinda at a happy place currently with my new amd mini pc. and audient . If it ain't broke, don't break it. The advantage would be efficiency - RISC vs CISC, and watts per operation. Again, if it ain't broke, don't throw money at it. Also, take a peek at the upcoming Lenovo Thinkcentre Neo 50q and the Ideacentre Mini X, both running Qualcomm ARM chips instead of Intel/AMD x86... I'm considering getting one when they launch (after a round or two of reviews to shake bugs out). btw do you see any time rb might run on mac m4 say natively ??
rb is coming along really well. RB is Windows only and will stay that way, so unless the ARM Mac's can run Windows...
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 03/17/25 02:32 PM.
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Simon.
tell me your views re the geekom mini pc beast i linked to upthread.
geekom minis are starting to find their way into some recording rigs.
note the following...
..cpu power and cores/threads.
and single core and math scores on cpubenchmark.net
..the method used for cooling and power.
and energy efficiency versus desktops
..AI features
..ssd slots expandability.
..array of ports and usb etc....includeing usb 4.
looks to me like the ports are beastly fast.
page down the link for tons of further tech info.
you tube has vids etc etc.
what is interesting with this new generation of mini pc's is some offer multiple m.2 ssd slots and more flexibility than traditional laptops.
frankly my new lesser specced mini pc eats bb for bfast.
gens in a blink of an idea....so this monster ??...lol.
exciting times.
yep...im watching what happens with snapdragon.
but frankly i think intel and amd wont cede market share easily.
more new generations coming.
happiness.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Being a newer company I wouldn't even look at them. No offence to them at all, but if I'm buying a work computer I'm either building it myself using parts from reputable companies that I'm familiar with, or I'm buying a prebuilt computer from one of the major companies like Dell/HP/Lenovo/etc. I buy computers for long-term use, and having never heard of Geekom before reading this thread I have no idea whether they'll still exist in 5 years - which is important for both sourcing replacement parts and for updated drivers and firmware. And if I'm buying a computer for play/gaming/etc then likely I'm building from scratch - though I've been using one of those handheld gaming computers a lot lately...
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Simon.
yep ive always stuck with big names but to be fair the company seems to be building a good rep from reviews ive seen.
as we all know people can get probs with any pc.
happiness.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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so ive got a further deeper look at the mac m4 mini
at a tech store. did a special trip...lol.
while its a beast with a great processor...
some things troubled me...
1..i thought the boot from cold to desktop (after switching on power) would be faster. my new mini pc takes only a few secs.
talking of switches...
2..the power is on the underside of the mini !...huh ??
so one has to get ones finger underneath.
no biggie...but..why ? if its a case of small form factor my mini pc is small
but has the power switch on the side.
why not make the mini a tad bigger and put the power button so its easily accessible ??
3..the limited ports really troubled me. many mini pc's these days have a generous number of usb and other ports.
eg the geekom i linked to upthread and other mini pc's.
4..also troubling is the unified memory.
i really wish they would allow the ability to use third party memory...twould help musos who havent got a lot of money.
also my concern is producers who use a ton of instrument plugins which might consume lots of resources that need more memory than the basic amount.
5..i also wish like some mini pc's there was more internal expansion.
for example now some mini pc's allow a couple of internal m.2 ssd's or even more storage.
dont get me wrong...the mac mini is very very impressive.
im just troubled re the above points compared to various mini pc powerhouses.
(see the net for further info and competitive comparisons.)
i cant wait to see what further mini generations might be...assuming such come to market. exciting times.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/21/25 11:11 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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The power button on the underside of the current Mini is ... ok, let's call that weird. There's a cottage industry of folks with 3D printers churning out gizmos designed to fix that. Anyway, with my left side paralyzed, I wanted no part of that. Slow startup time may have to do with network connections that have to be made at the store. From the startup chime to login screen, my Studio M2 Ultra averages 17 seconds. I shut it down and restarted five times this morning just to report. Contrast this with ancient times — twelve years ago—when my 2010 i7 iMac took 20 minutes to boot up and log into 100 browser tabs over 3 screens. I'd start, get my breakfast and be ready for work (company had been working from home since 1995). Ten years ago, I replaced the mechanical HDD with an SSD and cut the time down to 4 minutes—Yeah Baby! Eight years ago, I called Apple Support to wonder why a 2 1/2 hour video of an opera I sang was locking up FinalCutProX. After a screen share, I was told that it wasn't locked—my file would finish rendering in a week. Oh... I ordered my iMac Pro the next day—it arrived about the time that AV file was finished. As you can bet, the first test I gave it was that same file which took 28 minutes to crunch on that same machine (now my test file foe every Mac—4 minutes on my current Studio). If you like Gilbert & Sullivan, some Russian site has it for viewing. Ruddigore — Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose. Roderick was my first stage role 4 1/2 years after my stroke and, to hide my paralysis, I'm wearing a floor length cape made from a velvet curtain (I felt like Scarlett O'Hara).
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so ive got a further deeper look at the mac m4 mini
at a tech store. did a special trip...lol.
while its a beast with a great processor...
some things troubled me...
1..i thought the boot from cold to desktop (after switching on power) would be faster. my new mini pc takes only a few secs.
talking of switches...
2..the power is on the underside of the mini !...huh ??
so one has to get ones finger underneath.
no biggie...but..why ? if its a case of small form factor my mini pc is small
but has the power switch on the side.
why not make the mini a tad bigger and put the power button so its easily accessible ??
3..the limited ports really troubled me. many mini pc's these days have a generous number of usb and other ports.
eg the geekom i linked to upthread and other mini pc's.
4..also troubling is the unified memory.
i really wish they would allow the ability to use third party memory...twould help musos who havent got a lot of money.
also my concern is producers who use a ton of instrument plugins which might consume lots of resources that need more memory than the basic amount.
5..i also wish like some mini pc's there was more internal expansion.
for example now some mini pc's allow a couple of internal m.2 ssd's or even more storage.
dont get me wrong...the mac mini is very very impressive.
im just troubled re the above points compared to various mini pc powerhouses.
(see the net for further info and competitive comparisons.)
i cant wait to see what further mini generations might be...assuming such come to market. exciting times.
om My Mac Mini M4 takes around 17 seconds to boot to login. Enter password to ready screen takes another 5-6 seconds The power switch does not bother me none the thing fits in my hand As far as ports go I have a USB expansion connected to one of my USB which leaves me 4 extra ports on my mini. Yes memory upgrades are really out of the question with this little machine. What I did the first thing was use an external SSD to store all of my sound library's. Apple charges a ton for more memory and storage so them are things you have to consider. The Mac Mini M4 is a bargain considering how powerful this thing is. This machine really cooks and smokes my PC I also use has a AMD Rysen 7 with 8 core 3.59 Ghz processor with 32gb ram. I do not do video editing like Mike does which can really put a load on a machine. But it certainly can handle any audio tracks loaded with plugins and instruments I can throw at it. I personally do not need anything more than this for my use with music.
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Mike.
thanks for the m2 boot info.
i agree..im sure it was the tech stores net slowing things down.
fyi...tbh...with this apple m series pc's..
this is the first time in my song creation life that ive given serious thought
to getting a apple product for song creation.
the m4 mini IS a beast...its just some things are 'niggles'.
but of course the same goes for the pc side of the house.
tho'...to be fair im super happy with my ry mini pc.
not one prob yet.
(ps Mike..many prayers re your stroke. i wish you always the very very best.)
Brian.
yep im sure your m4 is a beast of a bargain.
i also do the same with my mini ry pc re a usb extender...works
great. frankly on my ry 7 mini i have trouble getting above 25 percent
cpu use. and as its m.2 ssd bb gens are blink of an eye.
rb reports i can do over 200 tracks with it.
the ry does the job for me but then i dont do large track/plugin
counts in a song.
so particularly for creators useing lots of high resource useage vsti's etc..
i would probably recommend something else.
for example some of the songs in my sig used just pg vst fx plugs..
do the job for me on vocs.
imho if apple wanted to slay the pc market...
offer a 250 buck m1 or m2 mini pc barebones...user adds their own memory etc etc..
as well as two internal m.2 ssd's. sales would soar imho.
then once people got comfy do the old upgrade marketing strategy...
eg replace the m1 cpu with a m3 processor that plugis in...
ie similar strategy to iphones...new model every year.
wow...just the idea cranks me up...lol.
excites the whatsits out of me.
happiness to all.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/23/25 05:53 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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imho if apple wanted to slay the pc market...
offer a 250 buck m1 or m2 mini pc barebones...user adds their own memory etc etc.. Ain't never coming back. ARM has already come to PCs and as it becomes more popular, expect modular do go the way of the dodo. Why? A unified chip offers far greater power and efficiency at a much lower cost. Apple's last modular Mac was the 28 core 2019 Pro. Fully tricked out with the complete AV package, it cost over $56,000. Since it was designed to take on 56 core Win10 Maya Rendering boxes costing $150,000 at their own game and did it better, it was quite successful with the film and animation studios that were the target market (not needing to crunch animation for Hollywood, I had no need).. The version for us mortals was the iMac Pro 8–18 core @ $5,000 – $11,000 with 2TB storage—I had a 14 core, then 18 core and both were impressive. The 2023 Mac Studio M2 Ultra runs circles around both of those machines and cost me $6,000 with 8TB — yes, I have one so I don't have to speculate. A tricked out Mini M4 Pro is $2,800 with 2 TB storage. Absolutely overkill for anything that one wants to do with audio. A standard M4 Mini with 1TB onboard runs $1,000 and handles most needs. No monitor included but a 24" iMac with a 5K screen costs $1, 700. No one makes a modular PC that can touch those+ anywhere near the price. Oh, the Mac runs cool to the touch.
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Mike.
re unified...
good point but its all question of how much does a user need in terms of prerformance.
crikey even the little el cheapo 150 buk mini pc i got only for netting is pretty fast....not up to my song pc but useable.
i just feel that apple is loseing sales to low end el cheapo pc
configs and pc refurbs. one can find pc refurbs these days with ssd for peanuts with i5. ive even seen nice lenovos for under 100
buks on amazon....its nuts out there.
so my concept was get the punters into mac base model and accomplish two things....
..slay the low end pc market due to useing m series cpu...
..get people into the apple ecosystem...
its an old mktg strategy.
for example pg are smart in useing this biz strategy...
ie... their 120 buk or so on fast likkle drive....ie the pro pak.
heck of a deal imho.
in summary with the m tech plus user supplied mem...
one heck of work could be done.
imho it would sell like hot cakes.
(btw..wishing you the very very best re health matters.)
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/25/25 04:02 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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i just feel that apple is loseing sales to low end el cheapo pc Apple doesn't want the low end market - they make more than enough money doing what they do and catering to the higher end market. It would be like asking Mercedes to build something to compete against Hyundai.
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imho if apple wanted to slay the pc market...
offer a 250 buck m1 or m2 mini pc barebones...user adds their own memory etc etc.. A tricked out Mini M4 Pro is $2,800 with 2 TB storage. Absolutely overkill for anything that one wants to do with audio. A standard M4 Mini with 1TB onboard runs $1,000 and handles most needs. No monitor included but a 24" iMac with a 5K screen costs $1, 700. No one makes a modular PC that can touch those+ anywhere near the price. Oh, the Mac runs cool to the touch. Exactly- The above config is pretty much all anyone needs. For BIAB and Logic (at least for those of us using less than 200 midi tracks) its more than enough. I use DaVinci Resolve and it gets the job done. Google Earth Pro, QGIS and ArcGIS. No problem. The only issue I have is stitching together UAV photogrammetry. That's a pretty hardware intensive operation. The solution to that is offload it to the many services that have popped up and will soon beat the price down where its not much of an issue. For 99.9999999% of computer users (who do a LOT less than the above) there is no need for even this much hardware. I've got an M2 mini 32GB with 4TB i bought a 2-3 years ago from AAPL refurb. Its all I need for a while.
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re giving up the low end....maybe consider the following..??
1..sadly many wonderfull high end studios no longer exist due to the creative power now available with a project studio.
2..i once worked for a tech company that was getting sales all over the world and growing like crazee. it was like a rocket ship.
but new entrants came into the market and now the company no longer exists.
just two examples...re dangers of ignoring the low end.
but we shall see what happens.
Mr G...that was a smart play getting a mini refurb imho because of the fast turnover of tech and new products.
before my new current ryz mini pc i did a ton of songs on a intel i5 refurb pc.
ithe ry was a ridiculous low price i couldnt say no to.
btw for any people lurking in the background there are some great threads/posts on gearspace.com re m4 mini.
loads of complimentary posts in the music computers section of GS.
some very very impressive performance stats.
@Simon....re mercs.
yeh where i live its tons of hyundais in driveways...way different from years ago.
hy has swept many car models of the past out of peoples driveways.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/26/25 04:05 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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i just feel that apple is loseing sales to low end el cheapo pc Apple doesn't want the low end market - they make more than enough money doing what they do and catering to the higher end market. It would be like asking Mercedes to build something to compete against Hyundai. That reminds me of an example given about design targets: Which is the better car, A Rolls Royce or a Citroen 2CV? If the purpose is for a peasant farmer to drive across a ploughed field with eggs on the passenger seat and a pig in the back, then it's the 2CV. That was the design brief for the deux-cheveaux and it met it perfectly.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
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Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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heres some interesting info re m4 mini. first is a looong thread of 35 pages...re m4 mini with loads of comments from studio folks. second is a vid about the m4 mini on a recent post in same thread. 1..the thread...oldest posts first.... https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/1437461-new-mac-mini-m4.html2..vid...page down to see it. https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/1437461-new-mac-mini-m4-35.htmlnotice the comment in the vid re m.2 socket. interesting vid. lots of info in above. frankly i think the m4 is pretty exciting....and hope this portends more amazeing apple product initiatives coming. ps...Gordon..lol...gotta love the 2CV. if PI gets to above 5ghz for cheap....watch out world imho assuming the price is still cheap. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/31/25 07:42 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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ps...Gordon..lol...gotta love the 2CV.
if PI gets to above 5ghz for cheap....watch out world imho assuming the price is still cheap.
om 2CVs are great fun, but the doors really do fall off. The Pi hasn't reached that yet, but the Pi5 is £48 for 2.4GHz with 2GB of RAM. £76 with 8GB. Of course it's also only 4-core (64 bit), so a very long way from Apple's chips, but surprisingly good. It's not so long since PCs were way less powerful. Actually, I thing three of my older PCs are!
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon. im really enjoying this mini pc era. im glad i kept an open mind and listened to you... there are so many exciting things happening in mini pc's. the reason i suggested apple have to be carefull re the low end is the pi is one example...but my mini pc i use for the net and useing it now cost peanuts under 150 buks. now its processor is slower but will turbo up to 3ghz etc. in a pinch if it was optimised fror music production it could handle i reckon a 40 track song possibly with a few low resource useage plugins. on my production ry mini bb loads in blink of an eye. but this el cheapo 20 secs. so its no speed demon. just good for email/general tasks etc. win boot from cold is surprisingly fast but ive turned off boot stuff i dont need. but to be fair i reckon if this el cheapo was around years ago the great producers of songs would have still produced kick A songs. why i think apple has to be carefull is imagine this puppy mini had a 5ghz processor or the PI...and could do big music production projects with big track and plugin counts all for under 250 bucks...watch out world....lol. my concern is if Apple offer only higher priced products that the rug might get pulled out from under them. its MBA basics...and repeated over and over in various markets. for example usb audio interfaces where lots of people are buying cheap interfaces because of price and bearing in mind the low end is getting sooo very good due to competition. im just riffing off your comment re pc's people used to use yonks ago to make music. finally the win mini pc's techs are advanceing very very fast now for little money... ..multiple m.2 slots ..5ghz cpu's ..usb 4 speed busses. ..higher speed memory. ..expandibility features etc etc. the only thing one has to be carefull is power wattage needs. which is why i chose a lower wattage ry cpu. but its way more than i need as im not running 200 tracks and plugins...lol. so lots of things happening that are exciting in both the apple and pc worlds. so im keeping myself aware of the mini pc offerings from various companies...eg beelink/minisforum/geekom and many others. these companies ARE selling product....and if you read reviews on the net and you tube lots of good star rateings....plus some will take 64 gb memory...eg..this beast... page down for tons of tech info. notice the bus speeds and other beastly features...lol. https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-PCIe4-0-Desktop-Computer-Fingerprint/dp/B0DXKR32ZPfun times...lol. happiness om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/01/25 07:00 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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..........................................
the only thing one has to be carefull is power wattage needs.
which is why i chose a lower wattage ry cpu.
but its way more than i need as im not running 200 tracks and plugins...lol.
...................................
om With all due respect my friend another thing one has to worry about is how well the mini PC is shielded. I bought a $550 (USD) mini for my Internet computer. When installing software I was not near my music studio and it worked perfectly. But when I moved the mini into my studio the mini was extremely noisy, i.e. unusable. Fortunately I got my money back on it. Note that I have two desktop computers, one for the Internet and one for music, in my studio and neither of them are noisy. I also have a $170 (USD) mini for my wife and it works just fine but again it is no wheres near my music studio. YMMV
Last edited by MarioD; 04/01/25 07:16 AM.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
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notice the comment in the vid re m.2 socket. It's not an M.2 slot, it's a proprietary slot. Thankfully it at least offers the possibility of third party upgrades and replacement, which will hopefully come to the M4 Pro soon. I worry about that on my own M1 machine - since the SSD is soldered to the main logic board, once the SSD wears out and fails the computer will become garbage. The Pi hasn't reached that yet, but the Pi5 is £48 for 2.4GHz with 2GB of RAM. £76 with 8GB. They're offering a 16gb version now, currently about $170 at some Canadian shops. Of course it's also only 4-core (64 bit), so a very long way from Apple's chips, but surprisingly good. If benchmarks are to be believed, the Pi 5 is roughly as powerful as a 2014 Mac Mini - not bad. My Pi 3B+ is apparently less powerful than a 2007 model... It's not so long since PCs were way less powerful. Actually, I thing three of my older PCs are! I know a few of my PCs are - I still have a 450mhz Pentium III kicking around! my concern is if Apple offer only higher priced products that the rug might get pulled out from under them. Well it's been working for them for 20 years or so...
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Mario. re noiseless pc. thats an excellent point. neither of my mini pc's have noise problems. i was carefull in my selection of a mini of course. the first thing i did was test the mini re dpc. turns out its one of the lowest dpc....so i kept it after various further testing. been a champ so far. the one used for the net im typing this on is fanless. of course if one wants a barn storming silent pc for music production and has the money...ie the following are beasts for music production..but i cant justify one personally cos of the fact musos make no money from plays on the net. https://silentpc.com/daw/there are many other companies also. but the nerd in me fancies one...lol. frankly a buyer has to be carefull re choice of mini pc...things are moving fast. what is exciting me is we are seeing more and more on these pc's up to 64 gigs of memory and multiple m.2's that a user can install. my production mini pc has 16 gigs mem cos thats all i need. Simon. re 'garbage'...yep thats troubling re hard soldered m1 ssd storage. im sure someone is working out or has worked out how to upgrade an m1. gonna check that out this week to see if theres a way. of course warranty would be invalidated. as to 'rugs' we shall see. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/02/25 06:42 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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im sure someone is working out or has worked out how to upgrade an m1.
gonna check that out this week to see if theres a way.
of course warranty would be invalidated.
as to 'rugs' we shall see. I believe it's technically possible to use a hot air soldering station to remove and replace the raw flash chips, but that requires specialized tools, specific flash chips, and risks the possibility of damaging the motherboard even further. I wouldn't bother trying it myself, given that the machine is already 5 years old, and by the time the flash wears out it'll be much easier and preferable to simply get a new computer.
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It would be like asking Mercedes to build something to compete against Hyundai. Mercedes Benz does make the Smart Car. Just sayin’… I worry about that on my own M1 machine - since the SSD is soldered to the main logic board, once the SSD wears out and fails the computer will become garbage My wife’s M1 MacBook Air is showing 1% usage wear after nearly 5 years. If a laptop, the NAND is soldered. Apple Silicon Desktops have socketed NAND. It’s proprietary as the controller is built into the CPU but upgrades and replacements are available on the grey market from those reboxing the Samsung OEM.
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Mercedes Benz does make the Smart Car. Just sayin’… Yes, but it's not really branded as a Mercedes product. I view it a bit more like Toyota/Lexus, or to keep things music related Gibson/Epiphone. This kind of branding isn't common in the computer world. Not to mention that Apple is far from the only company who only caters to the upscale market - Microsoft makes the Surface which is more expensive than the cheaper iPads, but they don't make a low end version. My wife’s M1 MacBook Air is showing 1% usage wear after nearly 5 years. My Mini is showing 21% after 5 years, which could be extrapolated to say I'll get 25 years of life out of it - however it's also showing 628tb written, which on a 1tb SSD is VERY high. Most 1tb SSD's are rated for 300-600TBW which I've already crossed. If a laptop, the NAND is soldered. Apple Silicon Desktops have socketed NAND. It’s proprietary as the controller is built into the CPU but upgrades and replacements are available on the grey market from those reboxing the Samsung OEM. Not all Apple Silicon desktops are socketed - so far only the Pro, Studio, and now the M4 Mini. All of the M1-M4 iMacs and M1-M2 Minis have storage soldered to the logic board.
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It's not so long since PCs were way less powerful. Actually, I thing three of my older PCs are! I know a few of my PCs are - I still have a 450mhz Pentium III kicking around! You had to, didn't you?  OK ... I checked. My oldest PC is a 2004 laptop with a 1.5GHz AMD 64-bit something, so I think you probably win the "mine's wimpier than yours" challenge. I'm pretty sure a Pi 5 would blow it away, especially as the laptop is still on spinning rust storage.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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You had to, didn't you? Yes. Yes I did. 
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Dang, I threw out a perfectly good 486 during the pandemic, knew I should have kept it. /ISA slots
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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well heres some rumours re the raspberry pi 6.. google for more info. https://9meters.com/technology/raspberry-pi-6-rumors-point-to-massive-upgrades-if-we-ever-see-itdunno if we shall see such...but one can dream...lol. and Mac m5 processors ? https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/m5-mac-mini-leaks/i gotta say...as ive said before...i really like what apple is doing.. and i would have rushed out to get a mac mini m4 if but for the hard soldered issue. that bugs me. plus i can get mini pc with tons more memory... sigh. lol...i would love the challenge to see if i could get realband running on it under win emulation...but maybe i would fail miserably...lol. just haveing fun. ps i got an old i5 refurb here stored away for one of those winters i get bored and maybe will see what it can do with a linux distribution for fun. om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
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Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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