I'm a long-time user of BiaB, although my skills are still pretty basic compared to what there is to know.
My question is about the Piano Roll: Are there people out there who use it to write melodies? Or is it mainly meant to give a visual report of what's going on with pitch, duration, etc?
In other words, can a composer use the Piano Roll as a substitute for a MIDI keyboard?
For confidence motivation, check out the midi creations of David Barnes Beatle cover songs. He created very accurate covers using a mouse to note by note entry of each instrument of a song individually. According to his web site, each song took weeks to complete.
Although the Beatle songs are covers, original compositions can be done the same way.
For confidence motivation, check out the midi creations of David Barnes Beatle cover songs. He created very accurate covers using a mouse to note by note entry of each instrument of a song individually. According to his web site, each song took weeks to complete.
Although the Beatle songs are covers, original compositions can be done the same way.
Charlie, I can see where those songs would take at least a week to complete. The results are extremely impressive. I would never had guessed how he inputted those tracks.
Thanx for sharing.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I'm not a keyboard player and am not melodically inclined so the piano roll midi set up helps me to create melody, counter melody and arrangements with a lot of visual, as well as point n click, assistance.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Thank you, Ray. Since you're an experienced user of the Piano Roll, I'll describe my current situation and ask a true beginner's question:
I typed in a few random chords, changed to the Piano Roll view, and then grabbed various notes, moving the bars up and down.
When I hit the play button, however, I hear the same progression that I originally typed in, as if I had not changed any of the notes in Piano Roll. I DID hear the changed pitches when I moved the bars, but playback gives me an unchanged progression -- even though I can see the bars light up in their changed heights.
What am I not understanding about playback in the Piano Roll?
The piano roll will display and allow editing of RealCharts all day without altering the progression that plays.
Be sure you are editing an instrument media format that reads and plays midi. Although RealCharts are midi and editable, their function in BIAB is notation, tab and Piano Roll display. They are underlying midi data of RealTracks, Artist Performance Files and Audio that doesn't natively produce sound.
... When I hit the play button, however, I hear the same progression that I originally typed in, as if I had not changed any of the notes in Piano Roll. I DID hear the changed pitches when I moved the bars, but playback gives me an unchanged progression -- even though I can see the bars light up in their changed heights.
What am I not understanding about playback in the Piano Roll?
Is the track frozen? Is it a true MIDI track (yellow) or a MIDI Super Track (pale blue)?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Is the track frozen? Is it a true MIDI track (yellow) or a MIDI Super Track (pale blue)?
Even if the track is frozen I can still hear the changes I make in the Piano Roll View. I froze the track then made my changes. In another test I made the changes then froze the track. In both cases I heard my MIDI changes. I tried with both super MIDI tracks and regular MIDI track. I was using the play button.
I can get the identical results as he does IF I hit the regenerate play button.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
See my post to Noel. I can duplicate your problem if I click on the regenerate play button (#1 in pic) I can eliminate your problem if I click on the play button (#2)
Which button are you using?
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Mario, good points. As long as the song has at least been generated once previously, then the play button should only play the latest changes, whereas the generate button has a much larger interaction. Thanks for clarifying.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Charlie's most recent post may be a key here, and also AudioTrack's question about track colours.
The MIDI shown for RealTracks is not the source of the sound, they're a transcription of what's played by the RealTrack, which is audio. If the tracks as seen in the mixer are green, then the piano-roll data is for information only, unless you switch a section to "Playable RealTracks". Try this video if you want to use that 2022 onwards: Using Playable RealTracks). It's value for composing is doubtful, IMHO ... probably better to use MIDI tracks.
If the track is yellow, then it's definitely MIDI and editing should work (unless the track is frozen). I think that's also true of MIDI Super Tracks.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Charlie's most recent post may be a key here, and also AudioTrack's question about track colours.
The MIDI shown for RealTracks is not the source of the sound, they're a transcription of what's played by the RealTrack, which is audio. If the tracks as seen in the mixer are green, then the piano-roll data is for information only, unless you switch a section to "Playable RealTracks". Try this video if you want to use that 2022 onwards: Using Playable RealTracks). It's value for composing is doubtful, IMHO ... probably better to use MIDI tracks.
If the track is yellow, then it's definitely MIDI and editing should work (unless the track is frozen). I think that's also true of MIDI Super Tracks.
Gordon is right. My previous tests were with MIDI and MIDI Super Tracks: yes Gordon editing works in both cases. I just tried a test with RTs and the MIDI editing does not work.
OP, if you want to modify RT notes you must drag and drop the RT as MIDI into a DAW, if you have a Window machine you have one in RealBand. In the DAW you can make your changes and assign a MIDI sound source to your track; I do that all of the time. Note it may not sound like the original RT but with a good sound source and a little MIDI knowledge you can come very close.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Wow -- so interesting. 'Ya learn something everyday. Or I did anyway. I now see that the Piano Roll works fine as long I'm editing MIDI material. I don't know why that wasn't obvious to me from the very beginning... but, alas, it wasn't. Many thanks to all of you for your comments and guidance. I'm really looking forward to using my newly-found MIDI editing tool.
debitspread, you may wish to mark your original post as "resolved" to officially close the thread.
If you absolutely HAVE to modify a RealTrack, a pricey solution is to export that track to .WAV and load the .WAV into Melodyne Studio. It uses a piano roll style format to edit each sound "blob" in a polyphonic source. From Melodyne it goes into my DAW. I've found this workflow completely effective in addressing many of my more complex RealTrack editing needs.
Good luck!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Wow -- so interesting. 'Ya learn something everyday. Or I did anyway. I now see that the Piano Roll works fine as long I'm editing MIDI material. I don't know why that wasn't obvious to me from the very beginning... but, alas, it wasn't. Many thanks to all of you for your comments and guidance. I'm really looking forward to using my newly-found MIDI editing tool.
It isn't really obvious and you're very far from the first person to not realise it.
As DC Ron says, Melodyne can be used to tweak things after generation. "Playable Real Tracks" can be used for segments within the RealTrack, but that's really intended for small treaks ... it actually switches for those tweaks from the RT audio to sforzando and samples from the RT file, then back to RT audio. If you want to control the whole track, though, MIDI and VSTi is probably the best way to go.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
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