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At the moment I'm writing songs using existing lyrics from my older songs, but with completely different chords, melodies, arrangements and whatnot. I think, unlike covers where you use the same lyrics and the same melody, this is a called a "remake". But when I google for an official definition of the term "remake", I find many different, sometimes contradictory, definitions of "remake". Since we have a number of pros here on the forum (some even familiar with copyright/publishing laws), I thought I'd just ask for the proper lingo for a couple of things. So, what is: - same lyrics, different melody (remake?)
- partially changed lyrics (add a pre-chorus, bin a verse), different melody (rewrite?)
- different lyrics, same melody (cover?)
Thank you for any information or links to information.
Last edited by B.D.Thomas; 05/02/25 04:45 AM.
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I'd say..... partial rewrite.
The interesting thing is that quite a number of my older songs are done like that.... But not necessarily intentionally. I had written the song complete with a melody but then let it set. When I revisited it, I couldn't remember what the melody was so I just made up a new one.
BTW: that's Suno's MO. One lyric, two melodies.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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At the moment I'm writing songs using existing lyrics from my older songs, but with completely different chords, melodies, arrangements and what not. It's whatever you want to call it. I'd say..... partial rewrite. Or complete rewrite depending on what's been altered. Composers and lyricists have been borrowing from themselves for hundreds of years.You have not come up with anything new — except that it's new to you.
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Interesting topic. If the song hasn't been "officially" released/published I guess it doesn't matter what you call it.
On a related note, what do they call it when someone re-records one of their own songs in order to obtain performance rights/royalties?
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I'd say..... partial rewrite.
The interesting thing is that quite a number of my older songs are done like that.... But not necessarily intentionally. I had written the song complete with a melody but then let it set. When I revisited it, I couldn't remember what the melody was so I just made up a new one.
BTW: that's Suno's MO. One lyric, two melodies. I think rewrite fits best in my case, as I also change the lyrics in some places. Thanks Herb ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/images/icons/default/thumbs_up.gif)
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At the moment I'm writing songs using existing lyrics from my older songs, but with completely different chords, melodies, arrangements and what not. It's whatever you want to call it. I'd say..... partial rewrite. Or complete rewrite depending on what's been altered. Composers and lyricists have been borrowing from themselves for hundreds of years.You have not come up with anything new — except that it's new to you. Thanks Mike Rewrite seems to be the consensus so far. I know this has been done for ages, but this is the first time for me and I would like to label it properly 
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Interesting topic. If the song hasn't been "officially" released/published I guess it doesn't matter what you call it. Most of the songs are officially published. On a related note, what do they call it when someone re-records one of their own songs in order to obtain performance rights/royalties? That's something I know because Taylor Swift's re-recordings . Thanks John
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I compose songs almost exclusively from my brother's lyrics, and will sometimes explore three or four different musical approaches. This is not a technical term, but I use the term "reimagine" to describe taking a new musical approach to lyrics. Google came up with this definition: re·im·ag·ine verb reinterpret (an event, work of art, etc.) imaginatively; rethink. That works for me.
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Most of the songs are officially published. If by that, you mean properly registered on a Form PA–Published, then any subsequent Registration on a new PA should refer to the earlier Copyright Certificates since you are only registering the changes to an existing work. The LOC has bulletins and FAQs to help you with this. Too bad they don't give a discount on the applicable fees when you do this.
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I compose songs almost exclusively from my brother's lyrics That's called "Elton John"
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Most of the songs are officially published. If by that, you mean properly registered on a Form PA–Published, then any subsequent Registration on a new PA should refer to the earlier Copyright Certificates since you are only registering the changes to an existing work. The LOC has bulletins and FAQs to help you with this. Too bad they don't give a discount on the applicable fees when you do this. Some time ago, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what it takes to properly register music in the US and decided not to do it. First, there are a lot of other countries where I would have to do the same thing, and second, according to Copyright Germany vs. US it's not really necessary (though helpful in case of litigation) if something is already copyrighted under German law. In times of globalization, this is one archaic pile of crap.
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Ahhh... I am quite familiar with Urheberrechtsgesetz – UrhG.
If you live in Germany, you are correct for the most part. Unlike American residents, you have two choices with whom to register while we don't. However, failing to register published works and subsequent changes does not protect them in the US, Japan, Australia or Great Britain if you have been ripped off. There is ample case law and your opinion about it being one archaic pile of crap—while I don't disagree—does not change this.
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Ahhh... I am quite familiar with Urheberrechtsgesetz – UrhG.
If you live in Germany, you are correct for the most part. Unlike American residents, you have two choices with whom to register while we don't. However, failing to register published works and subsequent changes does not protect them in the US, Japan, Australia or Great Britain if you have been ripped off. There is ample case law and your opinion about it being one archaic pile of crap—while I don't disagree—does not change this. I'm surprised you know the German Urheberrechtsgesetz - that's pretty unusual for someone who lives on your side of the big pond Thanks again for the clarification, I hope this thread will be useful for future generations. I have added the word “Copyright” to the title of the topic to make it easier to find.
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A byproduct of my prior work in the field of Copyright.
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BD,
I know you count on me to bring a little sobriety and seriousness to this forum.
I would call that going straight into the eye of the tiger, just a lone survivor breaking all the rules and taking it to the limit one more time man, when you got to fly like an eagle, and fight against the odds, when you're standing up at the gates of hell and the person you're most afraid of letting down is yourself, and when everybody else said you would never cut it, you got back on your feet and went inside the ring one more time, you turned to your trainer and said cut me I can't see, and you had so much blood in your mouth you called your own wife Padrian, and just when you thought your pride couldn't take any more hits, and people on the forum couldn't be any more rude and obnoxious, you got back on the saddle man, you got those lyrics, you picked up your guitar and you wrote that song again, because you knew that you were just like Paul McCartney, who gets up every morning and feels like he has never done anything and has to sit down at the piano one more time just to show the world that Paul McCartney can be somebody, and you and Paul are close, and you know the game, it's the game you can't win but you can't afford to lose, and then, at that exact moment, you know that you have to choose.
So you choose to just put it in another key.
And with blood streaming down your face you walk into the door of ASCAP on crutches and you hand it to them, and you say here, this is what great sounds like.
And then you walk outside in the rain and you walk all the way home because you know, this is the proving ground, and you don't have anything to prove anymore.
That's what you call it BD.
And you know that.
And you always have.
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I believe the official name of what you are doing is derivative work .
A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already exist- ing works. Common derivative works include translations, musical arrange- ments,.........reproductions, abridgments, and condensations of preexisting works.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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...you walk outside in the rain and you walk all the way home... Uphill both ways! You've forgotten this important point!
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I believe the official name of what you are doing is derivative work .
A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already exist- ing works. Common derivative works include translations, musical arrange- ments,.........reproductions, abridgments, and condensations of preexisting works. I always thought a derivative work is when you use someone else's work - if that's wrong, you're right, it fits my case perfectly.
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I believe the official name of what you are doing is derivative work .
A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already exist- ing works. Common derivative works include translations, musical arrange- ments,.........reproductions, abridgments, and condensations of preexisting works. I always thought a derivative work is when you use someone else's work - if that's wrong, you're right, it fits my case perfectly. Derivative applies in both cases. In the US, you are normally allowed to create them—there are a few restrictions. You are not allowed to register new copyrights without permission from the rights holders. Otherwise, without permissions, anything you add belongs to the original rights holders. I'm working with a couple of choral composers/arrangers who really should have asked in advance. Although, in both cases, the works were performed. neither can be published as is (in one case) or at all in the other. This is further complicated in the first case by the Canadian publisher not understanding the rules other than knowing that attorney fees are higher than any expected return. In the second case, the estate of a well known public figure knows this stuff as well as I and has never allowed the words in question to be set to music which means it can't happen till 2063 when the words go into the Public Domain (the US and Germany have different rules on this until 2073).
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I always thought a derivative work is when you use someone else's work - if that's wrong, you're right, it fits my case perfectly. Derivative applies in both cases. In the US, you are normally allowed to create them—there are a few restrictions. You are not allowed to register new copyrights without permission from the rights holders. Otherwise, without permissions, anything you add belongs to the original rights holders. I'm working with a couple of choral composers/arrangers who really should have asked in advance. Although, in both cases, the works were performed. neither can be published as is (in one case) or at all in the other. This is further complicated in the first case by the Canadian publisher not understanding the rules other than knowing that attorney fees are higher than any expected return. In the second case, the estate of a well known public figure knows this stuff as well as I and has never allowed the words in question to be set to music which means it can't happen till 2063 when the words go into the Public Domain (the US and Germany have different rules on this until 2073). Thanks again, Mike
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