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Hello, everyone: I HATE to "flood" the forum board with my songs, lol. However: I played the first version of this song to my Mum. She seemed to really not like so much the background track ... I think she thought it was too weak and sparse, etc. . So, long story short: I re-did the BIAB background tracks entirely (as well as the timbre of the solo voices) ... here's the end result. Not expecting anyone to go through the torture to listen to one more version of this song ... but, if you do want to hear it, it's here  Thanks so much for any comments at all, thank you PG Music for the opportunity to create and display our creations here, and thanks everyone once more for your patience! Rumi Says (v2) LYRICS: It's been Many, many, many years since we last spoke It's been Many, many, many times my heart you broke, I still Think of you, every time a white rose is in bloom, Thinking That perhaps, at last, God will reunite us, and soon, But Rumi says you're inside of me, And Rumi says: why look outside of me, See, Rumi says that we will never meet For inside one another our hearts will beat, Rumi says. I thought Many, many, many years ago I did see, Such a Stunning, stunning, stunning girl, outside of me Then I Looked, ever so oft, for you, the one I saw then ... I let Countless, countless songs of love flow out, from my own pen ... But Rumi says you're inside of me, And Rumi says: why look outside of me, See, Rumi says that we will never meet For inside one another our hearts will beat, Rumi says. I'm no mystic, nor poet, nor singer-songwriter, see, So all I can do is pray you one day will come back to me, Though Rumi says ... *********** BAND: Soloists: Eleanor Forte, Asterian II (Synth V Studio Pro) Mixed in Mixcraft Pro Studio 10 ****** Song Summary ************* Title: Rumi Says - 12 May 2025 File:Rumi Says v2 - 16 May 2025.SGU Key=C , Tempo 60, Length (m:s)=4:00 No intro. 56 bar chorus, from bar 1 to bar 56. Repeat x1 chorus No Melody No Soloist track. Song is saved with Volume, Pan, Reverb, Chorus, Bank0, Style is _TORTURE.STY (Torture Blue Jazz Wah Gtr Solo) RealTracks in style: 533:Bass, Electric, 12-8 Crystal Sw 065 RealTracks in style: ~1244:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm JazzBalladNY Sw 060 RealTracks in style: 3757:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm RockBluesySlow128RotaryBrent Sw 060 RealTracks in style: 3761:Guitar, Electric, Soloist RockBluesySlow128WahBrent Sw 060 RealDrums in style:AmericanaSlow128^03-a:Kick Sidestick , b:Ride Snare *******************
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James, a super song
Great backing tracks
Super synth vocals
This sounds like it should be in a musical.
A fantastic song
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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James,
I think this one sounds great as well. The new backing gives it a whole new personality.
I agree with Mario - this sounds like it should be on Broadway!
Excellent work.
Bob
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I love Rumi. I even quote him in my email signature. But I didn't comment on your 1st version, mostly because I couldn't get beyond the AI vocals (that's just me). I was in a better place to put those aside and listen to the music and lyrics today. I liked this version better overall. I think what you've done with the "many, many, many" repetition is quite unique. So here's a really, pikayune point: the only thing lyrically that gave me pause was the "stunning girl, outside of me" because where else would she be? To me that line then detracts from the meaning of the chorus. You could sub with "just out of reach" or some alternative. My two cents, anyway.
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I don't recall if I commented on previous versions of this.
I'm a big fan of using Synth V (SV) but you really have to spend some time to get the most out of those voices. This is extremely "synthy" sounding to my ears. Robotic is perhaps a better word. Articulations, timing, and pitch variations are the secret if there is a secret.
The rhythm of the lyrics in a few places were a bit unnatural sounding. A simple lyric rewrite to change the way things are said would go a long way towards making this lay on the ears easier. An example from your lyric: "my heart you broke".... no one talks like that who speaks English. Change to : "You broke my heart." However, that probably requires changing the primary rhyme in the preceding line from "spoke" which might entail a complete reworking of the first line of the song. Nobody ever said songwriting was easy. Don't get lazy. Take the time to learn, put in the work to make it happen and you will be rewarded with a well written song.
You're on the right path so keep on working on this.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Thank you, Mario. Really appreciate your kind comments!
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"A new personality" was exactly what I aimed for, with the new backing ... glad it worked! Thanks, Bob.
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I'm listening to your video. Is it the same version? I LOVE this, James. What a terrific composition. Classical singing and a Blues guitar, beautifully mixed. Whateve Rumi says I will listen. Extraordinary, James.
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BYOBand, thank you so much for your kind comment! The synth vocals have their limits, of course, but they enable me to write songs as I'd like to (instead of perhaps me singing, etc.!), so I'm happy enough with them. As for the "stunning girl, outside of me" lyric, I wrote it in contrast to Rumi's statement that the "eternal lover" is always inside of us, not outside. The singer is basically saying: I agree with Rumi, but, at the same time, my lover is outside of me as much as inside of me. Hence, why I felt that "outside of me" had to be stressed If it didn't work, that's another matter. But that's what I was trying, at least, to do. Thanks again for taking the time to listen, and for your feedback!
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Herb: Thank you for your wonderfully honest and constructive comment. I actually worked hard to get the voices to sound close to what I wanted them to sound like. So, if they sound too robotic, that's my lack of skill with them (as yet), as opposed to lack of application. I will tinker more with them As for the change of the order of the words in the lyric: "my heart you broke", that was quite deliberate, and justified (in my eyes, at least) as poetic licence . I could have easily written: "it's been many, many years since we were apart, it's been many, many years since you broke my heart", for example. But I chose not to. Debatable choice, perhaps, I agree - but it was a deliberate choice (in order, amongst other things, to put the accent firmly on "spoke" and "broke" ... on the verb, in other words) Thanks again for taking the time to listen! I really appreciate honest comments - even where I disagree with them, haha  I'm genuinely grateful.
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James, this version is very pretty as well. Like your BiaB instrument choices and arrangement. Hope your mum likes this one!
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Hi, James. Well, this sounds like you, that's for sure.  The use of a blues guitar here is inspired. The chorus works well, as does the harmonies at the end. I've got some... thoughts. I don't think the verse works well when you lock the singers into a rhythmic pattern like you did. There's a suspension of disbelief that takes place in music (and other arts) were we ignore artifice for the sake of artistic effect. For example, we'll accept singing in a metered and rhymed form, so long as it has some of the trappings of naturalness. But for me forcing the lyrics into that pattern in the verse put word stress in the wrong place and made them hard to understand, seemingly for the purpose of the rhythmic pattern which didn't seem to serve any particular purpose. In contrast, the end harmonies were also artificial, but were pretty, so it got a thumbs up there. Obviously, people will come to a song with different expectations, and you've got different expectations than me. And your opinion (and you're Mom's) is more important than mine. Anyhoo, nice job despite any nits on my part!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Thanks, Marty! It is indeed the same version. I'm so glad you liked it, you are ever so kind, as usual. And yes, Rumi is a fabulous philosopher/mystic. Trouble always arises, though, I find, when one finds one's lover OUTSIDE as well as inside of oneself, lol ... confusion, in my own experience, then ensues Anyhow - THANK YOU for your kind comment, and for listening to the song once more, in its new version!
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Thanks, Ron. Yes, this one was much more appreciated by my Mum ... who knows me so well, haha I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for listening!
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Hi David, Thanks so much for taking the time to listen! Your "nits" are always thoughtful, and have a valid reason behind them which you clearly explain, so nothing but gratitude from me, here. The rhythmic pattern, I just wanted to create the impression of a waltz. So I deliberately shoe-horned the lyrics into a waltz rhythm. You may notice that the chorus is in 4/4 (which subdivides into eight notes, in duplet patterns), whilst the verses are in 12/8 (which also subdivides in eight notes, but in triplet patterns), deliberately so. I have a feeling that all this would have worked much better if the solo parts had been instrumental, and not sung. Singing equals the need for lyrics, and perhaps it's that which doesn't work? If the same rhythm had been assigned to instrumental, wordless parts, it may have worked? i.e. it's not the rhythm in itself that is the problem, but the need for lyrics to fit it? Hmm! Anyway! It's hard to write a proper song, lol. But I'll try and try haha! In the meantime, again, thanks so much for listening. You ALWAYS give me food for thought, which is exactly how it should be, and you're always honest, constructive and in-depth. No more anyone can ask for!
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Immediately intrigued because I really love the Rumi poetry!
This is a really nice and enjoyable song. Very soothing and a gorgeous melody.
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I think it's a beautiful song with a charm all of its own.
I agree with David Cuny that the rhythmic pattern of the vocals makes it a little stiff/mechanical.
When using Synth V, the easiest way to change this is to record your own vocals to the backing tracks and adjust the timings according to your vocal style.
Apart from that, I really like your song!
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Thanks, David Snyder! Rumi is otherworldly, I agree Thanks for listening and for commenting! Glad you liked it
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B.D. Thomas: yes, on listening back once more, I agree. It could do with a little rhythmical variation, to keep it from sounding boring or robotic. Most singers do that automatically ... human ones, haha. I'll have to write that section down again, to the nearest sixteenth-note, haha ... and then run it through Synth V again. Ah, the precious commodity of time ... THANK YOU for listening - glad you did, nevertheless, like the song!
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Overall a good song, well written, and I like the "Rumi Says" concept. Enjoyed!
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