PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Beginners Forum 2nd pass through song ? [Resolved]

I imported a midi file and applied a style and saved.
Listened to song not realizing I had loop on.

The 2nd pass through song was different than the 1st.

Is there some setting that can be turned off ... please tell me how.

Song file if want to try

Hi Dana,
One of two things can cause that:
1-you have the loop icon checked
2-you have t he number of chorus repeats set to more than one
See pic

Thanks for the reply and image but I must not have explained correctly.

The problem I'm trying to explain is that the 2nd time through the song
plays differently than the 1st time through.

Like adjustments to the style was made ... it's close, but seems as though there are now different parts that come through.

Hi Danna.

As you have probably already noticed, BIAB has two types of part markers. There is the blue marker and the green part marker. The blue part marker is an instruction for BIAB that says "generate the accompaniment in this section in so that it is less complex". The green part marker tells BIAB to generate this section of music with more movement.

What you are referring to is that BIAB automatically plays green-part-marker generations in middle repetitions of the song. Only the first and last repetition are played with blue-part-marker generations. To disable this behaviour, do the following.

1) Right click on the chordsheet and choose "Song Settings" (#1 on the image below).
2) Remove the check mark from "Vary style in middle choruses" (#2).
3) Click on okay to close the window.
4) Regenerate your song so the the change in setting will take effect.



Regards,
--Noel

Noel thanks for explanation and image ... but when I uncheck the selection you showed in image, I get no sound on playback.

I may have created this file wrong but not sure.

Song was downloaded from web as midi.
I opened in BB.
Loaded a style that worked for song.
Used Sequencer dialog to remove or mute melody track.
Saved song.
BB gave it a MGX extension.

Hi Danna.

This is an unusual issue.

First a bit of background... When you load a MIDI file into BIAB, the entire MIDI is loaded onto BIAB's Melody track (using terminology from older versions of BIAB). This MIDI file then resides on BIAB's Melody track as a multiple channel MIDI (i.e. all the MIDI tracks in the MIDI file are loaded onto this one BIAB location).

BIAB's Melody track is the sixth track down from the top in the mixer. Because BIAB automatically names tracks using instrument names, these days, your sixth track from the top might not be named "Melody". What I have written below, though, still applies whatever the name.



When a BIAB song-file that has a melody track with multiple channels instead of just a single channel, the song-file is automatically saved with the MGX extension. The MGU extension is reserved for a song-file that has a single channel on the Melody track.

When you say that you muted the Melody track in the sequencer, I'm not sure if you mean that you have muted the Melody channel in the multiple channels or if you muted BIAB's Melody track. If you have muted BIAB's Melody track, then the MIDI file won't be heard because you have muted the entire file (which was automatically loaded onto BIAB's Melody track).

Try unmuting the Melody track and see if your sound returns.

Regards,
--Noel

Thanks for the info.

Just thought I could remove the melody instrument and save as song.

Below is how I created the mgx file.

useing rb it took me all of 2 secs after dloading the file (yday) and importing into rb and exporting from rb the midi minus the melody track...ie a new midi.
i tell you chaps this stuff is a doddle in rb with respect.

om

This is where things get a bit confusing. As you already seem to know by unchecking MIDI channel #4, BIAB's Melody track transmits MIDI on channel 4.

When the a MIDI is loaded, though, and the Melody track is in multichannel mode, things are different. Each of the channels in the MIDI file are transmitted on their own tracks. From the image you included (thanks for that it helps heaps), you have the contrabass (string bass) being sent on MIDI channel 4. The cello is on MIDI channel 3 and there are two instances of acoustic guitar, one on channel 1 and one on channel 2.

Most often with MIDI files, the melody of the file is on MIDI channel 1, drums are on channel 10 and other instruments are spread across the remaining 14 channels. Looking at your image, I would activate the contrabass (channel 4) and uncheck the acoustic guitar on channel 1. See if that stops the song's melody from playing.

After you've done that, though, if you have a BIAB backing active, regenerate the song so that the new settings are implemented.

Yes. You should notice that the bass has more variations than other parts. BIAB is designed to work this way.

There are many ways to work around this including freezing tracks. A good read through that part of the manual is where I would start. There are many more options than will be covered in responses in this thread.

Just to be sure it's clear, the explanation Noel gave about the checkbox to vary the style in the middle choruses is correct in explaining why BIAB sounds different on that second pass. Once you figure out the missing sound problem, Noel's suggestion should solve your original question.

Thanks but channel 4 is the only channel that stops the melody.

This is the original MIDI file I downloaded

Mike and Matt ... thanks for your input.

I just loaded up the MGX file.
It is easy to reproduce the problem. When looping 2:nd time around the melody track becomes silent, but the green light indicator on the track view shows that it plays audio, but there is no sound.
I have as default the MS GS Wavetable Synt selected.
If I switch and tick in "use VSTi/DXi synt" then the sound comes back (I don't know at all what happens).

Edit:
When I have the VSTi/DXi synt selected it stays on when looping. If I deselect the VSTi/DXi synt then the sound disappears 2nd time around.

Thanks @shlind for your comments. I was looking at "second pass through" from a different perspective.

When external MIDI files are loaded into BIAB, a user is limited by the settings used by the person who put the file together in the first place. In regard to this song, the reason the MIDI file does not play for more choruses is that there is a fade-out at the end of the file. This fade-out sets the final volume of the MIDI to zero and this is carried through each of the additional choruses. The fade-out can be seen in the attached image. It goes from the start of bar 49 to the start of bar 50.

So to fix this...

1) Start a new BIAB file (File | New).

2) Load the MIDI file. (Do not change the number of choruses at this stage.)

3) Save the new BIAB file as an MGX file. (It's okay to overwrite the previous MGX file.)

4) Open Piano Roll view.

5) Scroll to bar 49.

6) Set the same settings that I have in the attached image for #1, #2 and #3. (You should see the fade-out.)

7) Drag the mouse across the fade-out region. (Do not include the piano roll notes.)

8) Press 'Delete' to delete the fade-out.

9) Change the song to however many choruses are needed (for example, '3').

10) When BIAB asks "OK to adjust the Melody track to the new number of choruses?", select 'Yes'. Save the song.

The song should now play all the choruses.

Regards,
--Noel

Noel.

i think you nailed it.

this is a problem when mids are downloaded from the net.
one doesnt know what midi control parameters the creator might have put in.

heres another thing to ponder.
lets consider the following scenario.

lets say the the user sets the start of subsequent loops/choruses
after first play thru to say bar 3 and not right at the start of the song..
then probably because the voice parameter has been set to zero at the end of the very first pass thru the song THEN its not being re-initialised
for subsequent passes...right ??

conclusion is i dont think its a bb problem.
its how the mid was created viz control parameters.
in rb i had no probs playing the mid...and remember the rb event editor and midi monitor are very usefull 'tools' to do detective work as to what control and other parameters the creator of the midi put into the midi data stream.

for the op and lurkers heres two other little probs to be aware of
when one dloads a midi one didnt create.

1..one sets the midi tracks to ones preferred voices BUT they get reset to the original voices. reason being the way the midi author embedded commands into the midi file. thus these need to be analysed and stripped out say in rb which has lots of tools for analysis etc that i mentioned.

2..some authors will do some clever things to protect the midi song they created. so once again clever control parameters are inserted in the midi data stream. some authors might do this due to the work they put into the creating the midi song which can take rather a lot of work sometimes.

in conclusion over the years ive seen what some might say say are 'odd situations' when it comes to midi songs.

ps..let me say once again the choruses bb feature needs addressing.
yes i know its due to the way jazzers think BUT it often baffles new users and songwriters who think differently...
ie intros//verses//choruses//bridges//outtros etc etc.
which is why when i use bb i set choruses to 1 always and then use my own labels in the bb chord sheet eg i use V for bridge C for chorus I for intro...O for outtro etc etc. and i can use also the 'layers' feature in the chord sheet also.
in summary this whole jazz/chorus aspect needs to be reconsidered for non jazzers imho cos it keeps on coming up and confuses lots of non jazz genre users i suggest.

happiness.

om

@ shlind ... thanks for confirming what I was seeing though I couldn’t explain it well.

@ Noel96 ... thanks for sharing your knowledge and taking the time to figure it out.
Though I followed your steps ... was able to delete that fade out ... now I get no sound at all, even when opening the original midi file.
BB and I just do not get along. Guess that's the reason I’d had it for years but never learned it as it never works for me.
Again thanks for all your input.

@ justanoldmuso ... Thanks for the input and I did open and play the midi file in RB, and it played fine.
Will give it a try and see if I get more success with RB. Thanks

Danna,

That's strange that it didn't work for you. It worked for me.

When you say, "now I get no sound at all"... Does that mean that you get BIAB backing sound, or you get no sound from the MIDI, or both? If the problem is with the BIAB style, did you "Enable" the style? If you are not sure what I mean by that, have a look at the image below.



• The cross that the arrow is pointing to in the image indicates that the style is disabled.
• If you have this same cross, right-click your mouse-pointer on it and choose "Style is enabled" from the menu that appears.

By default, BIAB automatically disables the style when a MIDI file is loaded.

Regards,
--Noel

Probably a sidetrack, but strange.

If I have the default the MS GS Wavetable Synt selected, and "use VSTi/DXi synt" ticked OFF, then he Melody track gets silent 2:nd time around when looping (all the rest of the tracks have sound all the time).

If I tick in "use VSTi/DXi synt" as ON, then the sound comes back o the Melody track and it stays on during looping.
(all the rest of the tracks have sound all the time).

Not on that computer at moment ... will check tomorrow or Monday.

If I recall correctly, I could listen to styles in the style picker dialog ... but back to main screen and no sound.

Thanks