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I've been trying to use Band in a Box from time to time for years now. But with each try, I'm going more and more mad. So here's just one simple question, one example out of many:

How am I supposed to open a song from song picker?

There are two apply buttons, and I can double click a song title. Some of that sometimes works once or twice, then at best again after closing and reopening the program.

Obviously, I get something fundamentally wrong here (and everywhere else). Can anyone guide me to some helpful introduction to fundamental workflows, please?

BTW, it's 2025 on Windows.

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I see not many are jumping in to help with this issue!

I am afraid "open" is classic BIAB workflow - multiple ways of doing the samething, some work and some which don't depending on what your objective is. The justification generally given is that PGM wants to provide any and all options imaginable so there is a redundant menu items and multiple shortcut key codes to accomplish all things for all people. As you are seeing there are individual open function depending and where you want to open the song files. And remember song files in BIAB are defined as "mgu, sgu or "*.?g?*). If you are trying to "open" any other form of extension, then there are different menus.

So if we are only talking song files ("mgu, sgu or "*.?g?*), I suggest you create a single directory and place your song files all in one place (this will be the "home" folder). By the way, I have 1000's of BIAB songs. That eliminates all the different folder locations which have their own "open" menus. Better yet, look for the "SongPicker", new to BIAB2025 as the starting place for finding and opening a song file. Then as you experiment on which "open" button you push, you will see options to default to the "home folder".

And one final warning. When ever you think BIAB is not doing what it should be doing, go to Return to Factory settings to reset the app and then try again.

Good luck and don't get hung up on this item. There will be bigger hills to climb.

Dan


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Welcome to the forum. I think we might find it easier to respond if you listed the steps you took, and described what happened and why it wasn’t what you expected.


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@Matt: Start Band in a Box, click Song (left of the Display for song title and style) - that opens the song picker tab in the multi picker - select a song title and double click, press return, click some apply button or what else: most of the times, nothing happens.
Should something happen? I'm not sure at all.

@DrDan: I'm not totally new to Band in a Box - as I said, I tried to use it many times, mostly to have some background changes while practicing guitar, e.g. just bass and drum of a ii V I sequence in different styles.
But as you say: They want to provide every possible way to do everything that might be possible, and that's just overwhelming, especially with this 'historically grown' user interface. But I don't want to open that debate here...

Concerning the song files: I somehow found out (with help of this forum) how to populate this list. As the preinstalled song files didn't make sense to me - I probably got something wrong here as well -, I packed it with the free files Bob Norton provides: The Realbook for BIAB and the files from the Independent Users Group.

And for your 'final warning': I'm extremly bad at distinguishing between misapprehensions on my side, bugs and weird features.

Anyway, I'm really thankful for your jumping in (I mean both of you)!

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Seems like I had shuffled some files in the songs directory without rebuilding the database. Some kind of error message for not finding files would have been helpful.. BTW, as you mention closing the window: I'm grateful that all those dialogs aren't modal any more; I would be even more grateful, if the multipicker would go to the background when passive, now that they got rid of the prevalent Ok and Cancel buttons wink

Now, having done the reset, I'm lost again with that other display option. I've seen it before after installing the whole thing from scratch on a new computer some weeks ago, but forgot how to get back. Would you mind giving me a quick hint?

My general question remains: Are there tutorials for fundamental workflows? Not the kind under Help -> Help Topics -> Tutorials where you basically have to know the way to do something and they tell you: To open a file, click File -> Open or press this or do that or ... for every possible action. Rather something like: To set up a song for practicing ... here's one common way to select a part for looping ... and here's a common way to loop that part until you stop it. I think you get the idea. But probably that question should go under another header.

At least, now I know which synth to choose wink

Thanks alot for your patience.

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Hello,

For the display, if you would like to toggle between the modern view and the classic view, you can use CTRL + T.

We have many tutorials available under the tutorials section, the videos section and within the manuals. Here are links to all three!

Tutorials - https://www.pgmusic.com/howtos.htm
Videos - https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm
Manual - https://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2025full/index.htm

Hopefully this helps!


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Originally Posted by Nicholas -PG Music
Hello,

For the display, if you would like to toggle between the modern view and the classic view, you can use CTRL + T.

How often do I need that? If I'll ever get to learn keyboard commands, then I'll start with those I use more than once. Or is this setting back to factory settings the most common operation? I'm inclined to think that - it's the third menu entry, following the hardware settings, not buried as deep as all the other stuff dumped to the so-called 'preferences'.
BTW, meanwhile I found that really small grey button amidst some other small grey buttons, one of them saying in the hint 'DAW plugin mode', below some grey field which I can't imagine what it does, next to a button with a hint saying 'DAW plugin mode', all in the left upper corner, near the spot where people that read from left to right and from top to left usually look first. Do you really switch that often between having started Band in a Box as a program or as a plugin? How is it possible to switch that at all????

Originally Posted by Nicholas -PG Music
We have many tutorials available under the tutorials section, the videos section and within the manuals. Here are links to all three!

Tutorials - https://www.pgmusic.com/howtos.htm
Videos - https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm
Manual - https://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2025full/index.htm

Hopefully this helps!

The first 'tutorials' that aren't related to installation or errors are titled 'List of...' One is about DXi, so maybe I'll find out there way that Coyote thing that I probably wanted after factory reset didn't say anything. The first titles concerning making this or that are about UserTracks, RealDrum styles, and so on. Those really don't seem like fundamental workflows to start with to me.
The manuals are just lists of 'to do this you can click here ... or there ... or press this key ... or that three keys ...'. Even the so called tutorials in the help menu are like that.
I must admit, I'm too old and too slow for video tutorials; maybe I'm just not used to them.

Did the developers ever try to use their product?

Sorry for the rant. As I said, I really didn't want to get into that here.

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Re: Using Control-T
Quote
How often do I need that? If I'll ever get to learn keyboard commands, then I'll start with those I use more than once.
I rarely type Control-T. I only ever use the new user interface. Control-T only allows you to toggle between the older original interface and the newer interface. So this is not a matter of continual switching. Every function is available via both user displays.

Choose and stay with the one you want.

I hope this clarifies.


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Sorry, seems like I have been unclear in my frenzy wink

Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Re: Using Control-T
I rarely type Control-T.

That was the point I tried to make: I will rarely use it. How am I supposed to remember that meaningless key?

Originally Posted by AudioTrack
So this is not a matter of continual switching.

That was the next point I tried to make: Why does such a rare function take such a prominent place? I would never look for it there. And you didn't either, I suppose, or why else would you burden your mind with Ctrl-T?

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About the general questions, are you aware of the video tutorials? Some folks learn better that way.

About the Ctrl+T, you don't need to remember this, because there are two places you can click to select one or the other view. Look directly above the first data cell in the Chordsheet view, and you will see two small boxes called Minimal Screen Mode and Normal Screen Mode (these names will appear in a tool tip when you hover over the boxes). As AudioTrack mentioned, just look at each one, pick one, and stay with it until you are more familiar with the program. It's not a matter of function; it's a matter of personal preference about how much you want to see on the screen. I would think it might be easier when starting out to use the Normal mode.

Also about the Ctrl+T, there are tons of software packages out there that use many dozens of keystroke shortcuts. Power users find this to be the most efficient way to work, once you learn them. My music notation program has two full pages of keystrokes that do specific tasks; BIAB by comparison is much less. You will notice that BIAB usually provides more than one way to do things, and once you discover them, you can choose the workflow preferences you like. Ctrl+T is only one example of this.

Finally, my suggestion is to make one thread for each question. You can ask as many as you need to, and we will answer them as we go. You'll get there.


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Originally Posted by rgo
Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Re: Using Control-T
I rarely type Control-T.
That was the point I tried to make: I will rarely use it. How am I supposed to remember that meaningless key?
T for Toolbars.

Originally Posted by rgo
Originally Posted by AudioTrack
So this is not a matter of continual switching.
That was the next point I tried to make: Why does such a rare function take such a prominent place? I would never look for it there. And you didn't either, I suppose, or why else would you burden your mind with Ctrl-T?
Because at the time the new interface was introduced we expected some long-time users would struggle to become familiar with it, so we added an easy-to-remember shortcut key to switch back and forth. It made sense at the time.


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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
About the general questions, are you aware of the video tutorials? Some folks learn better that way.
I'm aware of them but I don't learn at all that way, really. They just overwhelm me.

Concerning the 'small boxes': That's what I finally found.

Concerning the interface mode: I've been 'using' (in a minimalistic sense) Band in a Box for about 10 years and am very conservative about user interfaces: I'll stay with what you call Normal Mode!

Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Also about the Ctrl+T, ... Power users find this to be the most efficient way to work, ...
I'm rather a casual user, and presumably I'll never aspire for more.

Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Finally, my suggestion is to make one thread for each question. You can ask as many as you need to, and we will answer them as we go. You'll get there.
Full ack. I'm absolutely surprised that I kicked off such a multifaceted discussion with my act of desparation wink

Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
Originally Posted by rgo
... that meaningless key?
T for Toolbars.
??? confused
Both of them have toolbars, just arranged differently.

Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
Because at the time the new interface was introduced we expected some long-time users would struggle to become familiar with it, so we added an easy-to-remember shortcut key to switch back and forth. It made sense at the time.
Did you ask any user whether it made sense to him at that time? Or if it makes sense any more? Or where they would expect that toggle (general preferences or display options, for example)? I suspect, this is a severe case of the developer thinking I alluded to above. Something like, I'm so proud of this, I'll put an extra button for it on the screen and give it one of the very rare one letter controls!

But as Matt noted: That's another thread.

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Originally Posted by rgo
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
About the general questions, are you aware of the video tutorials? Some folks learn better that way.
I'm aware of them but I don't learn at all that way, really. They just overwhelm me.
You might try Henry Clarke's BiaB tutorials on YouTube. I find them easier to digest.


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Originally Posted by rgo
Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
T for Toolbars.
??? confused
Both of them have toolbars, just arranged differently.
Yes - Ctrl-T toggles between two sets of toolbars. I was simply explaining the logic behind the developers choosing Ctrl-T for that shortcut.

Originally Posted by rgo
Did you ask any user whether it made sense to him at that time? Or if it makes sense any more? Or where they would expect that toggle (general preferences or display options, for example)? I suspect, this is a severe case of the developer thinking I alluded to above. Something like, I'm so proud of this, I'll put an extra button for it on the screen and give it one of the very rare one letter controls!
Yes. Multiple beta testers indicated that they wanted the old toolbars exclusively, and many others indicated that they wanted to work with the new UI but still have easy access to the old UI. Our users commonly ask for this as well - it's a very common request through tech support.

If it was a case of something the developers were proud of they wouldn't have added an easy shortcut to go back to the old UI - they would've forced users into the new UI instead.

Looking to the future, we are planning UI enhancements, and we will consider removing the keyboard shortcut. Typically our decisions are shaped by response from our beta testers and by users requests in our Wishlist forums, so if you have any suggestions that would be the best place for them.


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Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
You might try Henry Clarke's BiaB tutorials on YouTube. I find them easier to digest.
Thanks for the link. I like the man, and I like his concept, 'for seniors' wink
But as with all tutorial videos: I don't get along with them. The first one wasn't about what I thought (backing tracks for music production instead of practicing), and he is so busy, always moving, talking without a pause - it's kind of cognitive overload for me. Another one I watched, about style picker, was easier to digest for me, but he essentially made one recommendation in 20 minutes: To find a style to an existing song, type the song title into style picker. I have heard that before (seems to be the main feature of band in a box...).
Just to illustrate my general problems with that kind of videos.

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Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
Originally Posted by rgo
Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
T for Toolbars.
??? :confused...
I was simply explaining the logic behind the developers choosing...
Exactly.

Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
Originally Posted by rgo
Did you ask any user...
Yes. Multiple beta testers indicated that they wanted the old toolbars exclusively...
Here's another suspicion I've had for some time now: Your beta testers (I read about them before) are long time power users, they know your program inside out. I would rather call them co-developers.
How about an UI expert sitting next to a novice user, watching him, for example?

Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
...Wishlist forums, so if you have any suggestions that would be the best place for them.
Thanks for the link, I'll probably give it try.
That's gonna be a full time job wink

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If videos present a learning challenge, try reading the manual or using the help feature as you go. Everything is in the manual, and also the integrated help.

Many functions include a Help button that takes you immediately to help on the particular function. Try it out.

My suggestion is not to try to fast-track and bypass the essential details. Small steps are useful.


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Originally Posted by rgo
Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
You might try Henry Clarke's BiaB tutorials on YouTube. I find them easier to digest.
Thanks for the link. I like the man, and I like his concept, 'for seniors' wink
I think the "for seniors" bit is just primarily where he's targetting, but the videos are good for anyone who wants to learn BiaB.
It wasn't obvious to me whether you post was being overwhelmed by videos generally or the PGM ones in particular ... for me that have too much padding, too much music and then go through the too quickly through the bits in which I'm interested.


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Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
It wasn't obvious to me whether you post was being overwhelmed by videos generally or the PGM ones in particular ...
Both of it.

Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
... for me that have too much padding, too much music and then go through the too quickly through the bits in which I'm interested.
I just gave them another try and watched the first beginner tutorial, Audio Input Monitoring: The first third of it tells us what that is (use headphones....); the last half tells us how to search for errors (turn on phantom power...). The short middle part more or less just says: Turn it on by clicking some VU meter... I had to hit pause twice to decipher the writing at the bottom - the styles of the background music. BTW, it did not say were BiaB takes the input from - not ASIO, apparantly.
Your description fits my impression quiet well...

I tried to keep quiet, but you started it wink

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One piece of advice. This software is both easy and difficult to use at the same time. If you want to get the most from it you can give up every time it is difficult, or you will never get to the easy part. I did the same thing the first three years i had it then i dug in and learned it from videos, and a lot of help from other users. Lastly don't dismiss the help. Folks here will really help as long as they feel you are really trying to get somewhere with it. I have seen it a hundred times over the last 19 years. Guys come in ask a question in frustration and when users try to give answers they either argue with them or don't offer any feedback on the help! One word Patience!!!!!!!!



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Last edited by Rob Helms; 06/22/25 07:58 PM.

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Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!

Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.

Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.

Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!

And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.

The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!

2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

  • The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
  • MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
  • Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
  • Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
  • Playable RealTracks Set 5
  • RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
  • SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
  • iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
  • Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
  • Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
  • RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
  • SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)

Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

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