so after all these years, BB still inserts dim7 chords when I -only- write dim, presuming them to be the same. They are NOT, anybody who studied tonal harmony properly knows that. Try this progression, a circle of fifths:
Cm, Fm, Bb, Ab, Ddim, G
all sounds well, IF the Ddim is played as a diminished triad, spelled D,F,Ab. Now play Ddim7 (D,F,Ab,Cb) and hear how ugly the Cb sounds. And yeah, in the case of a dim7 chord here, it's called Cb, not B.
Dim7 chords require proper handling, and they often introduce notes that are outside the key. In this case it sounds bad although all the notes are diatonic. But the Cb makes an augmented second with Ab, which is why it sounds really corny.
And yeah, in jazz no one would probably care. But not everybody cares about playing jazz, either. If you stick that chord in a pop song with the Cb, it will stand out like a pickle in your cornflakes. That is, badly. The right place for a dim7 chords in the key of Cmin is Bdim7. Nowhere else, unless you are modulating.
Triads are triads, seventh chords are seventh chords. They are not always interchangeable.
so after all these years, BB still inserts dim7 chords when I -only- write dim, presuming them to be the same.
A few years ago, PG Music added dim chords. There is a setting in Display Options that will enter a diminished triad if you type Xdim. By default, BIAB does interpret dim as the diminished seventh chord unless told otherwise. Without changing the display options, it's possible to access the dim triad by using dim5.
I stopped using dim for dim7 about 25 years ago when the keyboard player in my church band complained. Nowadays, I use dim5 for diminished and dim7 or °7 to end the confusion. Broadway show books still use ° which is fine with me.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
As a 'less talented' guitarist, I learned to play Bdim as per the attached - but it has an Ab/G# in it i.e. B, D, F, Ab - what is the true name of that? Is that the dim7? Then a few years after, I found out there was a chord called Bm7b5 (B, D, F, A) (attached) which sounds slightly less confrontational. Andrew
A few years ago, PG Music added dim chords. There is a setting in Display Options that will enter a diminished triad if you type Xdim. By default, BIAB does interpret dim as the diminished seventh chord unless told otherwise. Without changing the display options, it's possible to access the dim triad by using dim5.
Hi Noel! I see that is under 'Display Options' for the chord window, and wondered if it actually makes a difference to the generated chord or purely for display. I selected the setting in Display Options and input the following chords Bdim Bdim7 Bdim Bdim7 and found that it is purely a display - see attached - the G# is present in each bar. Does anyone know a way of forcing BIAB to omit the 7th? Andrew
As a 'less talented' guitarist, I learned to play Bdim as per the attached - but it has an Ab/G# in it i.e. B, D, F, Ab - what is the true name of that? Is that the dim7? Then a few years after, I found out there was a chord called Bm7b5 (B, D, F, A) (attached) which sounds slightly less confrontational. Andrew
These are respectively the diminished (sometimes for clarity fully-diminished) and the half-diminished. The former usually indicated by the 'degrees' symbol, the latter by a similar symbol with a diagonal line through or by the m7b5 form. In the former, the 7 is doubly flattened relative the Maj7, in the latter singly flattened. (e.g. A#->A->G#)
For just the triad, people often write the ordinary 'degrees' symbol, which is OK for the triad, but can be misleading if one is using 7ths in voice leading.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
As I read the question, I was thinking this person doesn’t know about the checkbox. Noel revealed that solution. I recall it may have been more than a ‘few’ years ago, but the feature was added at our request.
This thread is another good illustration about how the forum sometimes works. There are two approaches one could take. The first is to lecture us about music theory and point out how BIAB doesn’t do something. The second is to go to the main BIAB forum for Windows or for Mac, and ask if there is a way to fix this problem. We are very likely to have seen it or discussed it before. If it’s a missing feature, we suggest a post in the Wishlist forum. If it’s a bug, we can report it the the developers.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Andrew, tell us more. You wrote "... I selected the setting in Display Options and input the following chords Bdim Bdim7 Bdim Bdim7 and found that it is purely a display - see attached - the G# is present in each bar. Does anyone know a way of forcing BIAB to omit the 7th?"
I just tried the same experiment and at first got the same result - no difference - but then I selected a Classical style and it obeyed the difference. What style / genre are you using?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Andrew, tell us more. You wrote "... I selected the setting in Display Options and input the following chords Bdim Bdim7 Bdim Bdim7 and found that it is purely a display - see attached - the G# is present in each bar. Does anyone know a way of forcing BIAB to omit the 7th?"
I just tried the same experiment and at first got the same result - no difference - but then I selected a Classical style and it obeyed the difference. What style / genre are you using?
And there we go. Style dependent… who knew? Something to note and send to Support. Perhaps this can be corrected for the Styles that don’t behave..
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
Maybe. I’m not ready to draw any conclusions yet, based on that one very limited experiment. I think there are styles that simply don’t play 7ths. Notes Norton would know better. And there are a bunch of options I’ve written about in Tips and Tricks.
And it might be sunspots - coincidence. Or in my case, a dead short between the chair and the keyboard.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
This, along with several other issues, is why I prefer MIDI. One note off, move it. BIAB is a complex piece of software that occasionally requires explanation from long-term users. As mentioned in another thread, standard notation is not always "standard". It is highly likely that questions about almost any issue can be solved through a workaround by the many people here who are familiar with the program.
Many users of this software have acquired other software programs to circumvent some of the issues. A considerable number of things can be done in BIAB. One note, even in an audio track, can be changed in pitch if needed.
The inevitable learning curve for this program will likely be frustrating for many people. Things are considerly better now than when we had to use floppy disk to load the program...lol
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
This, along with several other issues, is why I prefer MIDI. One note off, move it...Billy
Not for everyone, but I use Melodyne Studio to edit RealTracks very similarly to MIDI. I only infrequently even try a track regeneration, because "wrong" chords and reharmonzations are so easily addressed with Melodyne.
I'll agree with any argument that Melodyne shouldn't be necessary. But I can't unscramble that egg for me...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Thanks for the image. It helped a lot. I tried the _DAPPER style. After setting the Display Option to show 'dim' as the diminished triad, I received the same result as you. To me, this suggests that: (a) it's style related as Matt suggested; (b) the performer of the Realtrack 1662 did not play a diminished triad and so the 'dim' chord was mapped by PG Music as dim7; (c) PG Music did not map the dim triad separately.
RT 1662 is from set 147 which was released in 2011. I've checked back through the User Manuals and the diminished triad was introduced mid-year in 2012. This information means that when RT 1662 was recorded, the musician involved (Mike LeDonne) would have only been asked to play diminished seventh chords because in 2011, the diminished triad was not part of BIAB's repertoire of chords. Regarding Realtracks that were created after 2012.5, I'm pretty sure that most (if not all) will contain a diminished triad.
How to fix your issue with dim chords...
There is a setting called "Autofix sour notes". If this is activated for RT 1662, and instructed to fix notes according to the chord symbol, then after the track is generated, BIAB will process the track and tune any notes that are not part of the chord so that they become part of the chord.
The lower image below shows where the Autofix Sour Notes option is found. When I used this option, the diminished triads were corrected.
... The lower image below shows where the Autofix Sour Notes option is found. When I used this option, the diminished triads were corrected. Regards, --Noel
As others have said - fantastic research Noel, and thanks for the solution! I have been aware of the 'sour notes' option but have never used it and didn't think of its application in this situation. There's so much flexibility in BIAB! And thanks to Matt's comment as well - apologies I didn't respond sooner, but being in GMT+9:30, it can sometimes take 36 hours before I see other posts - but in this case, it sounds like my tardiness allowed more informed and inquisitive expertise (Noel) to shine. Andrew D
I've just acquired Melodyne Studio. A video demonstrating how you use it with real tracks would be a great addition as Melodyne has been offered as a $99 upgrade from time to time. I use it (or will) for harmonising my vocals and fixing pitch etc.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
Band-in-a-Box 2025 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Die deutsche Version Band-in-a-Box® 2025 für Windows ist ab sofort verfügbar!
Alle die bereits die englische Version von Band-in-a-Box und RealBand 2024 installiert haben, finden hier die Installationsdateien für das Sprachenupdate:
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=31008&filename=dim instead of dim7 (2025).jpg)
![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=31033&filename=Dim chords using fix sour notes.jpg)
![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=31034&filename=autofix sour notes location.jpg)
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean