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Sometimes Dreamers

I used to sit and wonder why the chances passed me by
waiting on the sidelines of life
There's no place for dreamers in the cold light of day
watching my chances slip away

But sometimes dreamers fall in love because sometimes dreams come true
Sometimes dreamers just like me and you
There's no time for dreaming when the moment arrives
seeing your reflection in their eyes

   We'll leave all our yesterdays behind us and look to the future instead
   We don't know what we're gonna find there but we're moving full speed ahead

But happy ever fades and times get hard and tough
What's a pair dreamers to do?
But just to keep on believing that we can make it through
Find our way togther me and you

   We'll leave all our yesterdays behind us, looking to the future instead
   Though we don't know what we're gonna find there, still we're moving full speed ahead

Instruments and FX
Main Buss: Sunset Sound Studio (Live Room, Studio 1), Lurssen Mastering Console (Americana Tight (Warmer))
Lead Vocal: SynthesizerV (Hayden 2), Ghz Vulf Compressor, Nectar 4 Elements
Backing Male Vocal: SynthesizerV (Liam), Nectar 4 Elements
Male Vocal Reverb: Sunset Sound (Plate 1)
Female Vocal: SynthesizerV (Natalie 2), Ghz Vulf Compressor, GW VoiceCentric (GW Backing Vocals)
Female Vocal Reverb: Abbey Roads Plate (Vocals)
Bass: 2358:Bass, Electric, MotownRnBUptempo Ev 165
Drum 1: EZDrummer3 (Seventies Rock, Mark Arnold Basic)
Drum 2: SouthernPopFast8ths^06-a:Sidestick, Kick1 , b:OpenHat, Kick2
Drum Buss: Fame Studio (Studio A Live, drums)
Guitar: 1120:Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 165, ReEq (Mud Free)
Guitar: 1031:Guitar, 12-String Electric, Fingerpicking Ev 165, ReEq (Mud Free)
Guitar: 1681:12-String Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 120
Guitar: 691:Acoustic, Strumming AcRockBright Ev 120, ReEq (Mud Free)
Guitar: 2535:Electric, HeldChords Gritty, ReEq (Mud Free)
Piano: 2494:Acoustic, HeldChords 120, ReEq (Mud Free)
Piano: 2495:Electric, Soloist JazzFunkMovin Ev16 130, ReEq (Mud Free)
Piano Buss: ReEq (Mud Free), Fame Studio (Studio A Live, piano)
Accordion: Rhythm OldWorldWaltzHeldPlus Ev 180, ReEq (Mud Free)

The Story
Short Version: It's been much too long since I made a song, so I finally sat down and kept at it until it was done. Feel free to skip the following section, and just listen. Comment if you want!

Edit: I've modified the male singers, for... reasons. I've also replaced the abrupt ending with a fade.

This started out as most of my songs do, by looking through the various styles. I decided to use something a bit more up-tempo than I usually did, and _ROMEO.STY seemed like a good choice.

I went through the existing demo and changed the chords, especially in the chorus. (I will always add major7th chords to the chorus). I'd been watching YouTube videos on "interesting" chord progressions, and decided to use a couple of them here. That choice certainly made working out a melody difficult, and even harder to find a working harmony.

Once I got an arrangement I thought worked, I rendered it out and imported it into SynthesizerV to figure out a melody line that matched. There's a new "group" option that makes it easy to copy song sections, so that sped up the process a bit.

I tried to work out a balance between chordal movement and repeated notes. Most of my melodies tend to be based on arpeggios, so I went back and reworked the verse a bit.

Typically, it takes forever to work out lyrics, but this one came pretty quickly. I actually got half the chorus done first (not a huge feat, it's short), and then the verses. One of the reasons it was a fast write was because it's cliches you've heard over and over again, which means it's perfect for a pop song.

I waffled on giving it a bridge, deciding not to mostly as an easy way out. I figured that it was going to have an instrumental, but that didn't happen.

Once I'd worked out the lyrics, I did something I don't usually do and changed the key so it wasn't quite as much a reach for the singer. I tried out a bunch of voices, and eventually settled on using Saros on the male vocal, and Natalie on the harmony. I duplicated the lead track and added An Xiao to balance Saros' harshness. But at the last minute while mixing the song, I swapped them out so An Xiao is the dominant male vocal.

I then went back to Band in a Box and changed the key from Ab to G, and restructured the song. I figured I'd work out an ending at some point, but never actually did, which explains the unsatisfying ending where I just edited it a bit. So yes, the final cadence isn't great, and I'll fix it eventually.

I worked out the harmony parts for Natalie, and ended up changing the melody of chorus after the first time. I hoped that adding a repeat of the chorus (with a modulation, of course) would make up for the lack of instrumental and bridge.

Then I went back into Band in a Box again and generated a bunch of additional instrument tracks, most of which ended up not getting used. I then plowed through the mixing process, trying not to get bogged down so I could get this out the door and finished. The initial mix was a wall of sound, so I did the usual trimming, automation, and removing instruments until it hopefully sounded like it was sort of coherent.

For no compelling reason, I've got an electric piano on one side, and and acoustic piano on another, both playing simple chords. I've added a second drum track using EZDrummer. I'd hoped to simply replace the drums, but got lazy and just blended them. And by "blended", I mean left both tracks in. The rest of the instruments are pretty much guitars.

Hrm... it looks like the accordion track was a waltz-time accordion. That explains the gaps in the playing.

I spent some time trying to figure out a good balance for the vocals, finally using the Ghz Vulf Compressor and really liking that sound.

The general sound I was going for was something sort of vintage, so I initially added the Fame Studio room sound to the final track. I ended up taking that off (but leaving it on the drums) and using the Sunset Sounds Studio A room instead.

The first rendering of the song was hilariously over-compressed, so I went back and tweaked things until there was at least the appearance of dynamics.

I should probably go back and add a proper ending at some point, but for now, I'll post it As-Is.

As always, feedback is appreciated. To borrow floyd jane's words: Have at it.

Bonus Points: Mention that the title doesn't appear in the chorus. Point out that I should have figured a way to get the title into the chorus.

David,

Great song! That lead male voice is excellent, as are the female vocals. Love the groove and arrangement. It reminded me of the Starland Vocal Band from the 70s. You have a great pop song here with excellent voices and harmonies.

Perfect mix. This is a winner!

Bob

Hi, David! This turned out really nice. Very breezy and bouncy, with an upbeat message. Nice job on the lyrics, think they serve the song perfectly. That's a delicate intertwining of the vocal melody with the harmonies, and it sounds very cool. (Not sure about that final note the lead vocal reaches for at 2:27 even after several listens. Might just be me.)

Always enjoy your explanatory notes, they are a delight and I appreciate you making the effort.

Great job!

David, I listened carefully, then read the commentary…wow! What a lot of work you put into it! Glad you stuck with it to completion. I have two thoughts: one is that the chord structure is complex (you could have written it with a more simplified chart, but I see that your goal was to explore some more esoteric changes) and therefore the vocal harmonies are tricky—I think at some small points COULD be smoother, but, again, they work with the approach you were after. Secondly, I think a good ending would be, after the stop, to reprise the theme without vocals, then fade it out—that’s what I would do. As always, so much to absorb, learn, take away from your work. Enjoyed it thoroughly!!

Hey this is cool.

It kind of sounds like one of those television show theme songs from back in the day like WKRP in Cincinnati or something like that.

I can imagine like a happy couple holding hands skipping down the street in Cincinnati and a couple of shots of the skyline, then ducking in to get a coffee then hugging then skipping through the park then going back to their apartment and then...

Well I probably should stop there.

Anyway this has a very cheerful sound to it and I noticed you found that Abbey Road reverb, good for you!

I think I have every single one of those Abbey Road plugins and boy are they wonderful.

Nice sound here!

Hi David,

There are some really nice unexpected moments in this, especially with the vocal harmonies. But I also wonder if there may be too many, kinda fighting each other for attention. But the chorus is very cool, the first and last phrases especially. The guitar(s) at 1:28 ... I could stand a few more bars of that. The bounce is nice. I look forward to hearing any revisions.

David,

I read your notes first. I was exhausted. That's a lot of work.
And then the comments. They did not give a clear picture of what was to come.

Goosebumps.
Chills, Mr. Cuny.
LOVE this.

Snyder is right. This would make a Great TV theme song (from our past). The one that wins the Emmy. And then a Grammy.

LOVE the chord changes (and I'm not really a chord-changes-kinda-guy) AND the major 7ths (I am a major-7ths-kinda-guy).
The changes were Exciting. Surprising. But in No Way jarring or even unexpected - although they were unexpected. Blended one to the next is how they hit the ear. Absolutely beautiful. Thrilling, even.

The harmonies are Astounding!

The tracks are just-right. The acoustics work perfectly.

This is Great. (I never say that)

It's good that you did not include a bridge or an instrumental.
Here is some stuff you can ignore (because you need no suggestions on this): I hear a celeste/chime/bell walk-down-arpeggio during the chorus (yes, I've done that) and some fast upward-moving string arpeggios right the at the end (I wouldn't have a clue how to do that)...

WOW.
Amazing.

fj

David, I'm glad to stuck to it as your finished project sounds great. Those synth vocals sound like real humans- brilliant job on that. This must have been a bear to mix but you did a fantastic job on the mix.

I agree that it sounds like an old TV show theme song and that is a good thing.

Outstanding job.

A very 60s vibe to this - indeed very Carpenters - and I really like the chords structure. My only criticism, which is clearly a personal thing, is that I just don't like SynthV vocals. Here and elsewhere where other have used alternatives such as Suno, the vocals sound organic, where for me SynthV vocals don't, particularly the way they're phrased, which is probably down to the singers not being Western.

Hi, David,

What a fabulous piece of music!

I read through the comments as I listened and I think David and Floyd are right on the money, can't add anymore than what they have already said.

Very impressive work, enjoyed!

What a wonderfully produced piece of music, David. SO much to talk about; there is so mch goodness in each measure, in each instrument, and those singers are outstanding. Well developed. Wow, when it was over the first time I realized my mouth was open for 3 minutes and 29 seconds. For the second spin I had a sip of coffee and just sat back to let the sounds take me away. Yeah, a cool 60s TV show theme. What a wonderful production. Or did I already say that?

Hi, Bob.

Thanks!

I was aiming for that 70's sound, so I'm glad it hit the mark.

The Starland Vocal Band was all over the radio with their single big hit. Like a lot of one hit wonders, they had an interesting backstory, and a sort of baffling lack of success following their initial hit.

I appreciate you stopping by to comment!

Hi, Ron.

Much to my surprise - there were a lot of times during the mix when this was nothing but a hot mess.

Lyrics are usually a massive pain for me, so I was pleasantly surprised this time around. They went through some minor edits (mostly choosing to reinforce the "sometime dreamers" lyric), but I avoided the urge to overthink them.

Hopefully the new ending takes care of the iffy cadence.

The nice thing about harmonies is that sometimes a good harmony can strengthen an otherwise weak melodic line.

Thanks!

Hi, Tom.

If there were an easier way to do it, I'd take that route. Using synthetic vocals is a bit of a pain, but it lets me work out the melody in a way where I don't have to worry about forgetting the melody, so that's great.

I suspect that most people put in as much work as I appear to on my songs, but they just don't detail it out the way I do.

Yeah, that's a tough one. I'm willing to go back and make changes, and gave it some serious though. I still might, but it's sort of grown on my ear.

I've gone back and given it a more proper ending, but the appearance of the electric piano is a bit abrupt. So there's still a good chance I'll go back and have another go at it. But not until I give my ears a rest and can hear it fresh.

I'm always happy to be something that can learned from, even if it's sometimes an object lesson on what not to do.

Thanks for your positive feedback!

Hi, David.

I've always envied writers who would pull those off - hook in the listeners with just a few lines, and then into the show. Amazing stuff.

See, this kind of imagination is why you're one of the most prolific and far-ranging writers on this forum.

Yep, there's something about getting close to that sound that inspired you to doing music in the first place.

Thanks, I appreciate you stopping by to comment.

Hi, Beth.

No need to wonder - I'm sure there are!

Yes, the "America" (as in the group) break - a nice change in an over-stuffed mix.

I've added a more proper ending, and fixed some issues with the vocal mix. I've also added a touch of guitar to the intro, break, and ending to help glue it together.

I'm planning on picking up Waves' new AQ later this week, and slapping it all over the tracks to see what it does. I may also do a bit more trimming on some of the instruments and a few other touches.

But I'm going to take a break from the song for a bit so I can hear with fresh ears.

Thanks for the helpful comments!

Hi, floyd jane.

If I wasn't so lazy, I'd figure out an easier way to do things.

Wow... A review worth framing!

I'm glad you liked them.

Make that a review worth framing in a gold frame.

Hrm... I do have a sampled celeste (literally the one from Mister Roger's Neighborhood) as well as a string runs library.

The celeste idea is interesting, although I don't quite hear it. I'll play around with it, though.

I'm a bit worried that bringing in the strings at the last minute would be as jarring as putting a trumpet there (yep, I tried that out). Then I'd be tempted to put strings in all over the place, just so the entrance at the end makes sense. And having just come in from the hot July afternoon, that's just exhausting.

Thanks for listening and your very kind comments.

Hi, Mario.

So am I! I wasn't sure it would gel until near the end.

I was a bit of a problem, but I think the compressor did a lot of the work.

That's what I was aiming for.

Thanks for listening and commenting!

Hi, Chay.

Thanks!

Ignoring any ethical issues, the technical problem with using Suno is that you can only supply lyrics - not notes. That would mean handing over all the other elements of music (harmonies, melodies) to Suno. And while the results would be quite good, that doesn't leave much for me to do.

Technically, it wouldn't be difficult for Suno to add the ability to edit notes. In fact, I thought I'd read that feature was explored in-house.

But they intentionally left that level of control out, on the correct assumption that they would reach a wider range of users if they had a much simpler offering.

Thanks for listening and commenting!

Hi, Dave.

Thanks!